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Old 04-03-2013, 18:09   #31
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

I agree. It would be foolish of me to think I would receive more than the replacement cost would be.
I fantasize they will pay $25,000.. So I can at least get as close to an exact replacement as can be found at the moment, not including the cost of getting to the boat or getting the boat back to my home port.
I'm not wholly ignorant of reality however and unhappily willing to accept that in the end, short of a financial windfall and dramatic legal representation on my part, what they will give is what I will get. Which kind of brings be back to my initial post in starting this thread, being mainly and to word it slightly differently here....
Am I going to get rogered roundly or will I walk with a cringe for a while but otherwise be ok?
(I'm trying to be humorous to mask my anxiety. I hope you can tell)
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Old 04-03-2013, 18:17   #32
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pirate Re: Boat hit while uninsured

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Manitu, One thing you can count on on the web is you'll get someone's opinion. May be right, partially right or totally wrong. In Boatman 61s case, he's totally wrong. About the only way you could be at fault in the original posters case is if the boat was illegally tied to a no mooring location and obstructing the fairway. Our legal system is pretty f****d up but not that f'd up.

If marine law applies, the 'General Prudential Rule' is in effect. That states that you have to make reasonable efforts to avoid a collision or other act injurious to another person. The courts assign a percentage of blame and assess an amount that reflects that percentage. In Boatman61 accident, he could have been partially responsible because he wasn't maintaining a watch. He would be only minimally responsible and the French boat would have to pay most of the costs. If the French boat admitted changing course without looking, they'd probably still be a 100% at fault even though he was below when they collided.

In civil litigation, there is 'Joint and Several Liability' that is entirely different than marine law. In 'Joint and Several Liability' anyone who is found to be at fault, no matter how little, is fully responsible for any damages that others at fault don't cover. That's why the ambulance chasers try and sue the State or City in auto accidents cause they know they have deep pockets and will pay 100% of the award even if the driver was 99% at fault. The question is where do you go from regular civil jurisdiction to marine. Does being tied up at a marina put you in regular civil realm or are you under marine jurisdiction. Have to ask a lawyer who'd possibly have to go to trial for a judge to make the determination. It's not about right or wrong but how good a lawyer you've got.

The easiest way for an insurance company to make money is not pay claims. Some try to do that as a matter of course. Looks like you got lucky and were injured by someone insured with a company that will try and to the 'right thing'. Doubt that $35,000 for your boat is the 'right thing', however. Get everything in writing or email as Boatman61 says. I'd back up the email to print just to be safe. Justices look at the written word, don't even want to hear about verbal communication unless there is corroboration.
The B/yard quoted £13,000 for a full repair.. I got £5000...
The yard repaired the hull/deck join and vertical split.. fitted the toe rail... the rest I did myself.

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Old 04-03-2013, 18:27   #33
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

Boatman61, did you go to court or accept what the offending parties insurance agreed to pay??. Believe Marine law is pretty constant thoughout the world. Seems like you could have gone to court and possibly done better. Of course, you'd have to pay for the attorney and other expenses and maybe netted less than what they offered in the end. From the pictures, looks like the yard's estimate was pretty realistic.

When I had to sue a boat manufacturer, it took nearly two years and getting to trial was still a long way away. I barely got my money back from the initial purchase. No recompense for the gear and the time to install it or loss of use of the boat. Ended up settling rather than going to trial when my attorney explained how big a check he wanted up front to go to court and how much longer it was going to take.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:58   #34
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

Mouse,

You may consider hiring your own surveyor to get an independent assessment of the damage. You are at the mercy of a surveyor that was hired by THEIR insurance company. If it looks like its going to be a total loss then get an independent appraisal of the value of your boat. Don 't just accept what they offer. Also document all expenses including anything you spend to stop collateral damage as well as living expenses if you do not feel safe staying on the boat. I agree with the idea of getting a partial payment ASAP and having the boat hauled out at a marina. If you have a leaking thru hull fitting and the boat sinks at the marina, then you will have a bigger mess on your hands and possible some responsibility for the wreck removal. It is your responsibility as master to be prudent and not allow the boat to damage the environment etc. Good luck. It could have been worse, the other party could have been uninsured too...
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:06   #35
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pirate Re: Boat hit while uninsured

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Boatman61, did you go to court or accept what the offending parties insurance agreed to pay??. Believe Marine law is pretty constant thoughout the world. Seems like you could have gone to court and possibly done better. Of course, you'd have to pay for the attorney and other expenses and maybe netted less than what they offered in the end. From the pictures, looks like the yard's estimate was pretty realistic.

When I had to sue a boat manufacturer, it took nearly two years and getting to trial was still a long way away. I barely got my money back from the initial purchase. No recompense for the gear and the time to install it or loss of use of the boat. Ended up settling rather than going to trial when my attorney explained how big a check he wanted up front to go to court and how much longer it was going to take.
No court... moved them from denial.. (because I was naked when I appeared on deck the other boat claimed I was asleep... but I'd been naked all day.. beautiful warm day.. last day of July..) to acceptance.. my friends at 'P' advised to settle as it was unlikely I'd get more...
Blame was apportioned 50/50.. **** happens...
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:29   #36
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

naked or not, u were below deck when it happened.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:36   #37
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

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Originally Posted by Capt.Alex View Post
Mouse,

You may consider hiring your own surveyor to get an independent assessment of the damage. You are at the mercy of a surveyor that was hired by THEIR insurance company. If it looks like its going to be a total loss then get an independent appraisal of the value of your boat. Don 't just accept what they offer. Also document all expenses including anything you spend to stop collateral damage as well as living expenses if you do not feel safe staying on the boat. I agree with the idea of getting a partial payment ASAP and having the boat hauled out at a marina. If you have a leaking thru hull fitting and the boat sinks at the marina, then you will have a bigger mess on your hands and possible some responsibility for the wreck removal. It is your responsibility as master to be prudent and not allow the boat to damage the environment etc. Good luck. It could have been worse, the other party could have been uninsured too...
This is very good advice. I am highly suspicious of any insurance company, period. Since this is a very important claim, your home,I would also add that you hire a lawyer, your surveyor may have a recommendation. You may not come out ahead with a lawyer, probably may loose a thousand or two, but they know the ropes. Right now, to the ins co, you are a babe in the woods. You will get better results, be able to focus on your boat,if you let a professional handle the yahoos that struck you.
Were you aboard? They struck your home, this isn't some day sailor, its your home, a lawyer would do better to relay that importance.
I know this is a very different example, but it does have to do with the mindset of insurance companies. I was in ICU post brain surgery, my insurance co denied my claim and stated I was fully able to work as a nurse. my husband and I just blew them off, we had bigger fish to fry, but just so happens I have a lawyer in the family that was quite outraged .

Don't trust them until the compensation is in your bank account.

Hope it all works out for you, God bless!
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:47   #38
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

If they want to total your boat then only accept an actual boat of equal or greater value. Threaten to take them to court if they do not want to do this. Having a pile of money thrown your way is not the same as having an actual boat. Let them go through the search for a replacement boat, survey fees, brokerage commission, sales tax and delivery. You should not have to do this or pay for it.

If they want to pay you money only then let them, provided they pay you additional money over the value of the boat to pay for the search, survey, delivery and your time. Don't let them take advantage of you. It was a boat and not a pile of money that was damaged and you expect a replacement boat in return.

Also send them a certified letter stating that the longer they drag their feet the greater your materials and labor costs are going to be for you to keep up with whatever you need to do to prevent further water damage to your boat.

States have various state insurance regulatory agencies that protect the consumer against insurance companies that decide they are going to rip you off. Look up yours in Georgia, you may end up needing to file a complaint with them if you do not get what you deserve as compensation. You can also sue the owner of the boat that hit you for expenses that the insurance company fails to compensate you for. Hopefully the max amount for Small Claims would be enough so you do not have to hire an attorney.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:01   #39
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
I agree. It would be foolish of me to think I would receive more than the replacement cost would be.
I fantasize they will pay $25,000.. So I can at least get as close to an exact replacement as can be found at the moment, not including the cost of getting to the boat or getting the boat back to my home port.
I'm not wholly ignorant of reality however and unhappily willing to accept that in the end, short of a financial windfall and dramatic legal representation on my part, what they will give is what I will get. Which kind of brings be back to my initial post in starting this thread, being mainly and to word it slightly differently here....
Am I going to get rogered roundly or will I walk with a cringe for a while but otherwise be ok?
(I'm trying to be humorous to mask my anxiety. I hope you can tell)
I know it's easy for me to say...but try not to anx over it too much. What will be, will be. Stressing over it will only cloud your decision making process and cause you to take the first offer to be done with it. They know this.
Above the cost of the vessel itself will be time for you to find another vessel, cost encored moving the new vessel and so on. I would want them to factor those costs in also. There is probably no way for them to judge if it was is bristol condition or not. So it should be assumed that the value should be near the top. Rover is right. these go for around $25,000. Maybe you did not pay that for it but it could be argued that you had done a lot of improvements and your labor is not free either.
Lastly, if by chance the boat is not valued for loss and they want to fix it...get other quotes at that time. Hope it all works out for you.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:49   #40
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

If you screw up (liability) or if the weather damages you (storm coverage) I can understand why you can only work with the insurance company, as they have contractually accepted that responsibility. However, in this case the responsible party is the owner of the boat, not the insurance company. The insurance company has a contract with the owner.

While as a practical matter, the owner will point you to the insurance company, there is no reason not to be in comunication with the owner. Be a pest and make it clear to him that if you are not saticfied with the actions of the insurance company you will be bothering him for the rest of time. He can then either act more dirrectly or pressure his insurer to move it along. I've done this, and it can work. You don't make friends this way, of course.
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Old 21-03-2013, 08:14   #41
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

Don't leave us hanging -- what happened?
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Old 21-03-2013, 08:57   #42
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Re: Boat hit while uninsured

Mouse… you sound like a very nice guy, but perhaps that can also be a disadvantage if perceived by the insurance adjuster that you are weak and unsure of your rights.

This after all is a negotiation and involves damages to you as well as the boat

Good Advice from others to independently document all your inconveniences and damages to personal belongings and to formally advise owner that his insurance company is too slow to remedy the mounting damages.

Be a squeaky wheel and you will get more oil.

You won’t get what you deserve, only what you negotiate!
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