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Old 08-08-2009, 10:53   #61
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Yogao: So, if you buy something on-line from another state, you send cash to your state administrator to compensate for not paying the sales tax? I know this sounds crazy and I would never do that, but you imply one is not law-abiding when using legal methods for saving some dollars on taxes. You must understand that legal equals law-abiding and your statement sounds just as crazy to me.

You have been successfully brain washed / programmed by your government. But you should realize that they would find and use any legal method for saving money too, leaving you behind in the dirt if it comes to that because they don't care s*&t about your financial well being. Their only worry is when you save enough money to become financially independent from them (don't need them anymore) as they loose their power over you right at that moment. And power is what they care about.

I only read one crazier sounding statement in this thread and that was about using a legal method to save some money and years later laws are changing, invalidating the method used in the past and the state prosecuting you for that offense. If that is your worry, you should find another home in another country because no self-respecting country would allow that. You couldn't even buy that bottle of milk in the Publix anymore because they might decide it's an illegal substance 2 years from now and put you in prison for illegal possession 2 years earlier. All commerce would stop and the nation would be bankrupt and void of citizens very soon. Oh, now I remember, they put up iron curtains to keep them in.

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Old 08-08-2009, 11:15   #62
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Nick

YOGAO, we live in a Republic, not a Democracy. Research the difference, its huge.
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:54   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endojoe View Post
Nick

YOGAO, we live in a Republic, not a Democracy. Research the difference, its huge.
yep, the US of A is a republic and I know the diff.

Jedi - I refer you to the beginning of my post. Welcome to the club where people bash me for doing the right thing. You have chosen a different path, for now I will respect that.

I will agree with you that politicians don't really care about us on an individual basis and only want the power, etc etc blah blah blah. However, recognize that as long as we have governments, that they will demand us to pay for them. If boat tax revenues do not meet budgetary expectations the taxes will be changed/increased/etc. to meet the "requirements".

When we demand fewer taxes and fewer gov't services by electing those who will vote for them, we will get them.

Finally, I apologize for not just answering the question (now paraphrased), "Does anybody just pay the taxes and sleep easy?"

Yes.
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:26   #64
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Yoago

With all the poltting and coniving I am doing on this issue you might think I think differently, but really I agree with you, but if you read my first exteneded long post you might see my reason for this. I want all to play the game as intended in a moral, ethical manner. I do not cotton with the haves rolling over the have nots and the ones that can most afford to pay their taxes using loopholes to avoid their fair share. When folks that should be setting the example are participating in schemes as I outlined then for me all bets are off.

In this case we are talking about the cost of taxation in the ownership of a boat, if in order for me to own a boat I need to pay taxes, own a house I need to pay taxes, fine, but I expect everyone else in the political entity with me to pay the same as I do.

Does that seem fair and reasonable?
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Old 08-08-2009, 13:50   #65
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Each, and everyone of us are looking for ways to lower our taxes. Doing it leagally through the laws made are fair game. If you don't like the game then change the laws.The ones trying to get around the laws will eventually pay plus extra. Use Al Capone as an example.........i2f
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Old 08-08-2009, 16:26   #66
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Jedi - I refer you to the beginning of my post. Welcome to the club where people bash me for doing the right thing.
Oh, I do not mean to bash you around at all! It is just my normal charming way of writing something ;-)

What I tried to do is make you see that the laws are written by the government (the ones you vote for) and that you are supposed to abide them. When these laws present you with different methods of buying a boat (see, I keep it on topic), you are allowed to select the method that is most convenient or the method that is most economical for you. More convenience equals less economical, ie. you have to do something extra to save money. Both ways (often there are more choices) are equally legal.

About companies: they have only one target: improve the financial status of the shareholders. This is the same worldwide and reducing tax pressure to the lowest legally possible level is just as important as gross profit. They do not care much about contributing to state finances. This thread is about LLC's and those are companies, not philanthropic institutions!

Quote:
I will agree with you that politicians don't really care about us on an individual basis and only want the power, etc etc blah blah blah. However, recognize that as long as we have governments, that they will demand us to pay for them. If boat tax revenues do not meet budgetary expectations the taxes will be changed/increased/etc. to meet the "requirements".
That might well happen and this just makes it even more important to select the more economical method of acquiring a boat. See, you worry about the state not meeting their budget, but that really is their worry, not yours. Your wallet is your worry. We are talking about sales tax here: when two shops sell the same product but one is much better priced (for you, the buyer) you have every right to buy at the cheaper place, right? However, this means that less sales tax is generated for the state! This doesn't mean that you must select the pricey shop to be a nice law abiding citizen or accuse your neighbor who bought at the cheaper place of not caring for the nation's well being!

Quote:
When we demand fewer taxes and fewer gov't services by electing those who will vote for them, we will get them.
They should subsidize boat buyers as it would be the greatest plan to save the economy they ever came up with.

Quote:
Finally, I apologize for not just answering the question (now paraphrased), "Does anybody just pay the taxes and sleep easy?"
See, that's another example of a programmed/conditioned way of thinking. Anyone who pays their owed taxes can sleep easy, regardless of how much tax they paid or saved. The ones who worked hard to save a little might even have a smile on their face during the REM phase! ;-)

Quote:
You have chosen a different path, for now I will respect that.
You will have to respect every path that is legal. If you do not, you should distantiate yourself from current law and go protest for changing the law. In the end, it is not up to you nor the state to decide if it is respectful or not; this is the job of the judge who keeps a watchful eye over both citizens and the state. History has proven that both need it.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 09-08-2009, 15:33   #67
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YOU form an llc, you form it in the state the attorney advises, (NC for instance charges no sales tax for sale of used boats) but follow the attorneys advice on state to create llc in. You buy the boat, from the owner and immediately transfer title into the llc YOU own. No room for games from previous claims as was said "hiding in the weeds".
There was a big scam based on this. Montana lawyers were doing boat LLC's for non residents. The other states picked up on it and went after everyone that played in the pool. Of course no one in Montana cared a bit no tax violations there so you would have been clean. The lawyers claimed it was a legal deal for clients in other states. Your state sees you have a Montana boat LLC and suddenly the even less than average tax man says "sounds like good fishing to me". Tax people can go fishing any time they want to. It means screwing up one of the deals really will hurt you bad.

I see an ads by Google ad came up related to taxes. We don't screen the ads in case it matters. tax people might read here too. Some have boats.

It's like my first boss. He had a large boat claimed as a business deduction because back then 50% business use would get you by and qualify legally. The company was audited every single year and they never found a problem - but they always came back! They never got him for anything and he died that way too. They do a full audit so the thing you are working hard to keep straight is fine and legal but the little things you messed up on suddenly become actionable. It's just a situation where your whole life comes under the microscope not just the one little thing.

Tax people are happy if they conduct an investigation and it yields more money. They don't care if the original idea was not the money maker. Works the same as if you go to Las Vegas. If you win big you don't have to give the money back because you didn't didn't declare all the games you might play before you got there. A tax audit always carries unlimited scope at least until they feel it won't be worth the money to continue. They don't have to prove it before hand. It's not like committing a crime where they have to show probable cause. With taxes the probable cause is - because you could!
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Old 09-08-2009, 16:47   #68
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I always love it when they use the term fair share...when taxing the rich.

The well off or even upper middle class use less state services than the general public.

That is what I love about being self employed....
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Old 09-08-2009, 16:54   #69
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AH, Yes th "Monkey Flagged"

vessels.

Between the Federal Government Regulations/Monkey Flags....the death of the US Merchant Marine

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Paul,


Here in Panama, we see wannabe mega-yachts (small ones) and the real thing continuesly, transiting the canal. 90% have US owners and 0% is US flagged! Not a single one. I was surprised to see a lot of Marshall Islands flags; the rest is all flying the Red Ensign (Brittish).

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 09-08-2009, 18:01   #70
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You are playing the "scare 'm away" game! You're sure you weren't the tax man in a previous life? ;-))
We don't get personal here. Suggest you lose that attitude.
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:39   #71
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Nick

YOGAO, we live in a Republic, not a Democracy. Research the difference, its huge.

Isn't the USA a representative democracy, with an elected President (CEO) and VP? Some of which like to sail, power boat and fish. (Boating tie in )

It is all about wording and verbage anyway, I think we know what is really going on, USA, inc.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:14   #72
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I am having lunch with my attorney and friend today, and I am going to discuss this llc issue with him. I will report back here at my earliest convenience.

I am looking at 2 boats, one in Texas and one in Michigan. I might be able to pull this off with the 1 in Michigan, but no hope for the 1 in Texas I suspect. Anyway it is a fun exercise in mental mastri....err, well never mind.
Da Mule
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:30   #73
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Mule. I 2nd the Although...interestingly enough...the word 'Democracy' is not uttered anywhere in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence or Bill of Rights, it was a purposeful omission by the framers that speaks volumes. Even more interesting, however...is the fact that ships were referred to in Article 10 of the U.S. Constitution....

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Originally Posted by Article 10
.......No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
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Old 10-08-2009, 20:58   #74
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My last word on the subject

My meeting today, predominantly over other subjects with my attorney (I do investigative contract work for him) yeilded no fruit. We discussed the various concepts of Texas Sales Tax avoidance but it is not his area of the law. We do a lot of employee-employer issues and so forth.

I then talked to my Texas Broker and I had emailed her my plan...she has been a Texas broker for 20 years. She said that that had been tried multiple times a few years back and the work-arounders got hosed, and hosed bad.

I will cheerfully, ( well maybe not cheerfully) pay my Texas sales tax. I gave it my best shot but when my broker, someone I respect, someone in the busines, someone that knows the business tells me I am gonna get the business I do not want, well I listen and I listen hard.


It has been fun, but I give up, I am just gonna pay it. No onw has ever made me do things the right way, but I have damn sure been in the position that I wished I had. Wall 24 mule 0.
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Old 16-08-2009, 16:55   #75
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Most US States apply whatever their automobile rules are to boats concerning the requirement to register the boat and pay sales/use taxes. Florida has a 90 day on transit before Use tax is required. However, most states say that the boat has to be registered in some other state first otherwise you have as little as 10 days to get out. That is why you see some weird locations on the transom of some boats. A friend of mine put Ohio on as they supposed don't charge any use/sales tax. Delaware is popular for the same reason. For USCG Documentation you must list a "port" which is now anyplace with a US Post Office and display that below your boatname. Since you must pick someplace in the USA why not pick a "no-fee" or low-fee state and solve the problem.
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