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Old 22-06-2017, 10:23   #1
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Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Last year I was twice asked by a broker here in the Bay Area to clean the hull and replace the anodes on a 80' Hatteras that he had listed. The arrangement was that I would invoice the boat owner, not the brokerage. Long story short- the owner is disputing the charges; claiming that he never authorized the first service and therefore doesn't want to pay for it. Further, he doesn't want to pay retail for the anodes we installed during the second service. The boat has since been sold.

The broker in question seems reluctant to confirm to the seller that he indeed requested that we dive the boat twice, despite my showing both the broker and seller the texts we shared discussing this and despite the broker telling me that I would get paid, even if he had to write the check himself. My question is this; is the broker an employee of the brokerage? The brokerage in question is based in Southern California. I want to contact the brokerage's owner and explain the situation, in hopes of getting paid and avoiding small claims court. Any insight appreciated.
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Old 22-06-2017, 11:46   #2
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Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Good Luck, I assume they may or may not be, that it will vary from one Brokerage to another, one I bought through yes, but I'd bet some use contractors, self employed people
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Old 22-06-2017, 11:55   #3
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Brokers work for themselves.

If the boat owner did not ask for hull cleaning and zincs, then boat owner should no get the bill for it.

It sounds like this Brokers is stiffing you and he is the one you should take to court.
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Old 22-06-2017, 12:48   #4
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Perhaps looking at the contract the seller and broker should have executed would give a hint.

Last contract I saw, the broker can do certain things and has certain duties & responsibilities on behalf of the seller/owner. The contract should spell out who is responsible for the associated costs.

Now that the boat is sold, I suppose it's too late for a "mechanic's lien", which would typically be the tool of a boatyard to assure they got paid.

I suppose that your path will cross with that broker again....
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Old 22-06-2017, 13:10   #5
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

The Broker may or may not be an employee of the agency. Some brokerages engage brokers as independent contractors and some as employees. However, I would go to the brokerage regardless because the brokerage's license is involved in addition to the broker's. Now, actually there are only two titles in California. There is a Broker (which is the brokerage as you know it typically) and the Salesperson (typically known as Broker elsewhere). You can look him up to be certain which he is. Broker/Salesperson Directories

You're in a tough situation, especially since the boat has been sold and you didn't record a lien prior to the sale. However, you're not without hope depending on how much you want to work at it. I'm sure the sales agreement said it was free of encumbrances. Tell them you'll be contacting the owner of the brokerage but also the purchaser of the boat. Now, I do believe that the best you're likely to get at this point is a negotiated settlement, but that's much better than nothing.
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Old 22-06-2017, 14:05   #6
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Instead of looking at Small Claims court, you could look at filing a lien on the boat. The lien travels with the boat to New owners. Maritime Liens: Liens Against Ships & Boats | Lawfirms.com
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Old 22-06-2017, 15:18   #7
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

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Instead of looking at Small Claims court, you could look at filing a lien on the boat. The lien travels with the boat to New owners. Maritime Liens: Liens Against Ships & Boats | Lawfirms.com
True but a crappy thing to do to the new owners. The beef is with the broker.
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Old 22-06-2017, 15:30   #8
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

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True but a crappy thing to do to the new owners. The beef is with the broker.
The beef is with the prior owner. The broker was just acting as an agent for the owner. The lien is with the boat, not the owner, current or prior.
Since it's such a small amount t, I'd be tempted to write it off as a cost of doing business.
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Old 22-06-2017, 16:20   #9
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Just an opinion ... It seems that the deal was between you and the broker. I would definately get the brokerage involved to see if they might help to settle this. Sorry to hear you're not being paid for your work. Hope it works out well.
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Old 22-06-2017, 18:22   #10
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Thanks for all the input. I just composed an e-mail to the brokerage's owner, CC'ing the salesman (for that's what he is, not a licensed broker) and the boat owner/seller, outlining the situation and asking for an amicable settlement outside of court and/or a mechanic's lien. We'll see what his response is.
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Old 23-06-2017, 07:12   #11
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Getting stiffed is not the cost of doing business!!! Only the stiffer would say that

In real estate, a lien must be recorded before a sale, which goes with the property, as stated elsewhere. However, standard contracts generally require the seller to certify there's no liens. The claim here isn't with the new owner.

If you don't get a prompt resolution to the matter, take all 3 of them to small claims court. It only costs a nominal amount to have each of them served.

As a small business person, don't assume for a minute you aren't due every penny, and it's abhorrent that someone would try to take advantage of someone like this. Maybe they do things differently in CA than NC, but as someone who has been in business for themselves, and a rental property owner, I wouldn't hesitate to take them to small claims court. You can file the paperwork and represent yourself. Just be ready to document your case.

On the surface of it, the sales person is going to end up paying you. Even with a judgement, good luck getting paid. The brokerage should step in, or risk getting their reputation tarnished. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 23-06-2017, 07:17   #12
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

Yes, it's true that some people have no qualms about screwing a small businessman, and I do not consider this "the cost of doing business." The amount we're talking about is not huge, but it is over $1000 and I'm not just going to walk away from it. Assuming I do have to pursue my remedy in small claims court, it will not be my first time at the rodeo.
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Old 23-06-2017, 09:19   #13
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

I don't know what state you are in, but the general rule of law is that the principal is responsible for what the agent does, when the agent's actions are in good faith and in furtherance of the principal's interests.

This means the seller is responsible for the bill. I would file a claim in the proper court and seek payment from the seller. I would also include the broker and agent in the lawsuit.

Sorry, there is not a quicker self-help method that I am aware of when the boat has already been sold.
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Old 23-06-2017, 09:49   #14
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Thanks for all the input. I just composed an e-mail to the brokerage's owner, CC'ing the salesman (for that's what he is, not a licensed broker) and the boat owner/seller, outlining the situation and asking for an amicable settlement outside of court and/or a mechanic's lien. We'll see what his response is.
Make up a contract for future work. It is a shame things need to work that way.
I don't think a mans handshake is any longer his bond.
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Old 23-06-2017, 10:18   #15
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Re: Are Brokers Employees Of The Company?

I suspect a lien would be successfully challenged if you can't prove the owner authorized or was aware the agent requested the work.

Think about it. If I tell you to rebuild the engines on my neighbor's boat (unbeknownst to him) and he comes back and says he never requested this, why would or should he be expected to pay up. This really isn't different. The broker is paid to sell the boat and not hire maintenance work out (unless you have proof to the contrary).

Now, is the broker an employee...the whole "independent contractor" shtick is a load of BS but assuming that is the employment model, you can ask nicely showing your documentation and there is nothing wrong with that. I would play dumb and assume the guy is legally an employee until proven otherwise. If he's sending things out under the company letter head and he is affiliated, it's reasonable to assume he is an authorized agent of the company. Doesn't hurt to try.

Particularly if it's not a large bill, they may just pay it and take it out of his commissions. Not worth it to have you bad mouthing them to ever customer in the marina. Now if it's in the thousands...they may decide to stone wall.
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