Am I Dreaming ? Any Advice Please ...

[zeehag]

any brokerage is a lousey reference in this buyers market--as the broker NEEDS a commission. look around and find goodies to peruse--i paid 10k for a 41 ft formsa--LOL goood luck. good deals are out there but NOT in brokerages anywhere.

[Reefdog]

Thanks Zeehag, Capt. Don, Skipmac, and Dockhead,
All great advice, I will call around and see if anyone has abandoned any boats that could be a great start.
I see what you are saying skipmac about the 36 being a price changer. I had originally been looking at the 30ft range like Dockhead mentioned but was talked out of it by some of my sailing acquaintances. There man reasons for their suggestion of a 36 footer being my smallest size was that I would not have enough room to carry previsions and gear and still be comfortable with 2 people and 2 dogs? How do you feel about that, is that true? Also, some 30 footers lack things needed for comfort such as a shower, head, cook top, or refrigerator, suitable bed for two. I had been looking at a pearson 30 ft fly catcher for 6,000 that seemed perfect on paper but again the size seemed to discourage me. I will keep looking as zeehag says my deal might still be out there.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Reefdog

Thanks Savoir, Boatman, Unicorn. What price range should I be looking in for a 36 plus boat that’s not long distance sailing trip ready but day sailing ready, or is there no difference. I was hoping to find a boat that I could sail for a few hours at a time and then add the expensive gadgets and upgrades as I prepare over a 2 year period to head on a long distance trip. Maybe this is where my power boat experience is leading me astray.

A 40yr old 36' boat in decent shape NOW would be in the $15-40k range. It should be ready to daysail. To go offshore, even to the caribbean, expect to pay an additional 50% in upgrades and outfitting costs.

Given your 2yr time horizon you do want the boat REAL SOON. You need the time to gain experience sailing. If you want to reconsider your time horizon you have a better chance of getting lucky. Keep in mind that the searches itself is going to cost, money for gas to go see boats, lodging, food, etc and a surveyor in the end.

An alternative plan would be to get a Laser or 2 right now and start working on your sailing skills. Lasers have good performance, good resale, large used market, mostly selfbailing and are rigged fairly simply. Going with the Laser right NOW gives you 6-12mo to bargain hunt, and learning on a dinghy is a much better way to learn the sailing part of living aboard without being distracted by all the cruising skills like navigation, anchoring, electronics, motors, cooking afloat, marine heads etc.

The big things you want to make sure you have are light wind sails (start with a drifter), heavy weather sails (storm jib, trysail if you are feeling flush [you would want to add a track on the mast to hoist it on], and staysail if you are feeling really flush [you would need to add a a removable forestay and running backs] and lots of anchors (1 oversized main, a backup Fortress/Danforth, a 1/2 to 2/3 size kedge and if you are feeling flush a Luke/fisherman/Herreshoff -- main with 150'ish of chain plus rope, the rest each with 35-40' of chain plus rope) With a smaller boat you can get away with using the chain pawl to weigh anchor. On a larger boat you will need a windlass ($1-2k new) plus cabling and extra battery capacity if you go electric. A smaller boat means smaller (cheaper) sails, anchors, windlasses, etc.

You really want at least 1 good seaberth in the main cabin for each offwatch person plus a place to sit for the onwatch that won't disturb sleepers. Best would be a main cabin berth for everyone. Quarter berths are very good, settees (longitudnal benches) you have to convert every night are good, a dinette (transverse benches) would probably be mediocre given the amount of conversion required but depends on the particular boat. The V-berth will be unusable offshore. A pilot berth would be excellent and aft cabin berths would be good (too much motion to be very good) but pilot berths only start appearing near the very upper end of the size range you are looking at.

I would suggest looking at a Cal 34. CAL 34 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com

2 quarterberths minimizes the amount of converting that has to happen everynight and yet leaves plenty of room in the main cabin for a very comfortable U-shaped dinette. At least one has been round the world so they're strong enough. Enough room for plenty of stores for 2. Small enough to be more managable in really bad sailing or anchoring conditions.

Recently I talked with a broker here in San Diego to look at a Cal 36 which is what I want to buy. We discussed the Cal's and he said the Cal 34 have been very undervalued of late, though that may only apply on the West Coast.

If you want to reconsider your size range down to 28-30' you might be able to leave the dock for $10k or a bit more on a short time horizon.

[Vasco]

It can be done. My buddy crossed the Atlantic three times singlehanded in his Hughes 35. He lost the boat when it fell off an elevated highway when he was towing it home for the winter. No insurance so it was a big loss. I found a Roberts 34/35 in Antigua on the internet for under $10,000. He went down, bought it and sailed it back to Toronto. He then crossed the Atlantic a couple of times in it. So it can be done. I must add that he was pretty handy when it came to fixing things on a boat.

[Reefdog]

Thanks Adelie and Vasco that is really helpful information. Since we do want to get a boat that is in at least in basic sailing condition and in our price range we will look at some 30 ft boats while keeping our eye open for that great deal to come along. We are flexible, we truly want to do this trip on a catamaran but realize that this is out of our price range at the moment.

What would you all say about a boat like this for example? I know it would need to be inspected by a surveyor and have a sea trial but the general make, size, and price?
http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/2390928058.html

Thanks

[boatman61]

Interior looks nice & tidy which is a big plus... suggest when you go down to view grab a hose and wash down the topsides well for him then nip down below and check for drips/wet patches... topsides are a lot less hassle to sort out than the interior..

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Reefdog

Thanks Zeehag, Capt. Don, Skipmac, and Dockhead,
All great advice, I will call around and see if anyone has abandoned any boats that could be a great start.
I see what you are saying skipmac about the 36 being a price changer. I had originally been looking at the 30ft range like Dockhead mentioned but was talked out of it by some of my sailing acquaintances. There man reasons for their suggestion of a 36 footer being my smallest size was that I would not have enough room to carry previsions and gear and still be comfortable with 2 people and 2 dogs? How do you feel about that, is that true? Also, some 30 footers lack things needed for comfort such as a shower, head, cook top, or refrigerator, suitable bed for two. I had been looking at a pearson 30 ft fly catcher for 6,000 that seemed perfect on paper but again the size seemed to discourage me. I will keep looking as zeehag says my deal might still be out there.

The size that suits you is something that completely depends on you and your preferences. Years ago I met two German couples living on a 27' sailboat that they had sailed from Europe and had been cruising on for about 6 months. I figured by that time they must be very good friends. No dogs though.

Most 30' boats I know of do have heads and showers although the shower consists of a curtain in the head.

Refrigeration, bed for two, full galley with stove and oven, all that is readily found on 30' cruising boats.

Smallest boat I lived on was 32', the largest 65'. The 32' had plenty of room for me, wife and daughter, full galley, head, etc. The only major thing missing was the refrigerator but could have been easily added.

One thing, besides more room, that a larger boat gives is less motion at sea. In that regard bigger is definitely better.

[martinjrichter]

I am looking for a boat much like you and have been looking at the on line sales sites like sailboatsfor sail.com. There are lots of boats that will fit your requirements but buying a boat seems to be much like getting married. First rule, find the right one, wife and boat.

Most true blue water sailors I have talked to say they want a heavy boat with a full or modified full keel. That doesn't make it a blue water boat but is a critical first step. Water boats">Blue water boats have to take what the sea gives them while a coastal boat can duck into the nearest harbor in heavy weather. So the emphasis in blue water boats is on safety through strength of the boat structure and safety items such as a life raft, over the horizon communications (SSB) and backups for critical systems.

Joshua Slocum sailed around the world in 1895 on a 37 foot wooden boat with limited and often erroneous charts, he was a professional sailor. Todays electronics gives us a great advantage in open ocean sailing. But the most important thing to remember is to respect the sea. Realize that when farthest you can walk at sea is from the aft cockpit to the bow pulpit and back again in less than 100 feet, size of the boat really doesn't matter.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Reefdog

Thanks Adelie and Vasco that is really helpful information. Since we do want to get a boat that is in at least in basic sailing condition and in our price range we will look at some 30 ft boats while keeping our eye open for that great deal to come along. We are flexible, we truly want to do this trip on a catamaran but realize that this is out of our price range at the moment.

What would you all say about a boat like this for example? I know it would need to be inspected by a surveyor and have a sea trial but the general make, size, and price?
http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/2390928058.html

Thanks

FLYER (PEARSON) Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com

It's a converted race boat.
Very light, very wide boat, you would want crew sitting on the rail except in light winds, or you would want to install water ballast tanks. Very limited head room, 5' at best it looks like. Short, deep fin so steering will take more attention.

While the boat could be cruised more skill and effort would be desired than something more moderate.

[Reefdog]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I learned a lot form all of your posts. I will let you know how it turns out and I am sure I will be seeking your advice in the future.

[alerion]

We went from a westerly 28 to a Hans Christian 36 to a Shannon 38 and now I sail a pudgy little eastward ho 24. The incredibly eye-opening experience I had was " small boats are way cheaper in all respects". Storage, slips, repairs and maintenance. Get the smallest boat that will do the job. If it's just you and the gf ( no kids) why the heck would you need anything over say thirty feet? Providing the boat has enough displacement to give you the storage and elbow room you need you're good to go. 10k will get a suit of brand new sails for a 30 foot cutter or a new diesel (have fun installing it!) or you can get your boat awlgripped for about that. If you're interested, here's a way cheap big sister to my boat that's in NC. I would have bought it had it been available last time I looked but I've rebuilt three big boats now and I'm tooled up for it. You might not be. Still, she might be right for you or at least get you thinking.
http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/eastho31.htm

Good luck

[Doodles]

Get yourself down to Mexico ...32 Islander - $7,900

[Cheechako]

It may be doable, but basically you are dreaming with 10k. Have you motor cruised with two dogs? It's pretty tough, but depends on how badly your dogs need to get ashore twice a day etc. Also, sailboats have the ladder in the companionway, where motorboats have less of that so the dogs can move around... It's a big step on that kind of budget. Do you have survival money once you buy the boat?

[sailorchic34]

The islanders are pretty good little boats. I have a 72 34' Islander I purchased for $11,500. The hull or mine anyway is solid fiberglass. The deck is solid fiberglass. Very stout. The hull, mast, standing rigging and engine were good, everything else needed to be tossed (even the compass). However the old boats have great lines and mine can with a newer yanmar 3gm with less then 300 hours on it.

For me anyway, well I put another 10k into it, But now all the systems are new and I'm good for a while.

With an older boat, you need to figure at least 30%-50% or lots more as there is ALWAYS something that needs to be fixed. The lower the purchase cost the more it will need. I knew my boat needed an overhaul when I purchased it. Now its good to go.

Plus being a smaller boat, I can and do sail it singlehanded quite a bit. It's not as fast as some of the newer boats, but then again nether and I.

[zeehag]

there is also a trimaran looking fairly good--just a lil ambiant dirt/dust on it, for sale just 3 slips down from me....for sale....