Advice on buying a used chartered boat

[charleshagen]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Beware anyone online asking about specifics of the boat. Advertising what a great deal it is is throwing chum in the water. Beware a surveyor with ties to the listing Broker or charter company. Self survey as much as possible. Look for an online group of owners of that brand. You can search for known issues online without starting threads. This is a used boat & all the guidelines for buying a used boat apply.

ALL EXCELLENT POINTS AND GOOD ADVICE

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I bought an ex-charter boat and did a circumnavigation... and still have it. Its pretty damn wonderful!

2 things: they are cheaper because people don't like the idea of an ex-charter boat
And
Lots of people with a one-owner boat have a vastly inflated opinion of the value of their boat.

My advice is to look carefully, negotiate well, survey well and GO ENJOY YOUR BOAT!





Mark

Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.

Ditto

I have had my ex charter boat for 3 years now and have never had a significant issue beyond normal wear and tear maintenance.

I've said it before ìt is important to ask about the reputation of the charter company and their maintenance policy as much as the survey of the boat.
Some companies do minimum maintenance and have a quick turnover of boats.
The company I bought my boat from leases their boats from private owners. They charge owners a 20% margin on maintenance costs so the company has an incentive to keep the boats in tip top condition. If anything they over service.

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[JOHNMARDALL]

There's a lot of good advice already posted but I would add that even though this is a sailboat, after you've replaced the sails, the problem most likely to cost you a lot of money will be replacing the engine(s) and surrounding equipment. An experience-based generalization is that for most electrical and mechanical work, the labor cost for removing and replacing an item of equipment will be much higher than the equipment costs, and if an engine isn't available that fits the existing engine beds, much higher could be 200%. Getting firm prices for boat work is difficult, and just like land based construction, the extras will be significant. Having anyone quote and work on the boat without adequate facilities, experience, tools and references is even more suicidal than taking low prices for home improvement projects.

Of course, surveys are essential, but many focus on deck delamination and similar structural issues and almost ignore engine and gearbox problems.

Having said all that, frequent use is better for most machinery than infrequent use, especially in salt air, so that the boat has been chartered is not a negative, if the charter company has an excellent maintenance and repair program. Some do, some don't.

Good luck

John Mardall
Vetus Group.

[Chalifour]

Charter boats are known to be abused. Engine and mechanical components are extensively used because charter people are on a schedule. Not rare to see engines with 4000 hrs on the record! If well professionally maintained they can be a good value. Investigate the credentials of the operator, have a sound and independent survey performed and keep a budget aside of approx 25% to cover replacements and upgrades that the survey won't detect. Beside, the price differential with a privately owned boat takes in account the tax which is likely not paid on the charter unit. In some counties it reaches 23%! Good luck!

[Cadence]

I believe I would do a little checking on the reputability of the charter co.. I think most are in effect a management co. for someone else's boat. Some are probably good and some questionable. Maybe the longevity of there time in business would offer a hint? It would seem that word of mouth is your best advertisement, may really apply to that type business.

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Chalifour

Charter boats are known to be abused. Engine and mechanical components are extensively used because charter people are on a schedule. Not rare to see engines with 4000 hrs on the record!

True Dat! On a proper run diesel 4,000 hours isn't really anything, but see below.

I would add that most charter boats don't have gensets so the chartering newbies are known to let the, or one of the, diesel engine(s) idle for hours to charge the batts. I'm not a diesel mechanic but I understand, from this forum and thanks for that guys, that isn't a good thing for the engine.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

True Dat! On a proper run diesel 4,000 hours isn't really anything, but see below.

I would add that most charter boats don't have gensets so the chartering newbies are known to let the, or one of the, diesel engine(s) idle for hours to charge the batts. I'm not a diesel mechanic but I understand, from this forum and thanks for that guys, that isn't a good thing for the engine.

Heck, 40,000 hours are not much on a well maintained diesel engine. Our local island water station has more than several hundred thousand hours on the diesel engines running the pumps. Fifty year old diesels under constant loads are not unusual. Its all in the maintenance.

[adlib2]

Originally Posted by epiic

I guess what I am asking is at what point does it not make sense to buy a chartered boat?

Also, how much bellow asking should I offer?

Having purchased a Charter Boat many years ago for $125,000 I spent another $100,000 to get her ready for cruising. There were no electronics other than Depth instrument and the interior was stripped out by me, all new cushions and mattresses, radios, chart plotter and radar, autopilot, windlass and running rigging, new paint for deck and hull. And still ended up with a made for Charter vessel that is not as high end as private.
Would I do it again?~~Not likely.

[jmschmidt]

I'm buying one now so I'll let you know in a month or so. Seriously, I've chartered many boats and don't believe I ever saw one that I wouldn't buy for a fair price given that the deal would be subject to a personal inspection, survey and sea trial. It also helps if the boat is still in charter and will be subject to a phase-out by a reputable charter company wherein all survey discrepancies will be addressed or the price will be renegotiated. If the boat was a charter boat in the past but is not currently in charter all bets are off. So make sure to stick with the survey, sea trial and inspection. After all, charter companies like to make money and they can't do that with crappy boats for rent and they can't sell boats to their lease-back owners if it is known that they treat their boats badly while they are under charter contract.

[Privleoplag]

Originally Posted by epiic

What does the ratio of heads to cabins have anything to do with this thread?

Sorry, thought I was posting that to some thread about where do you draw the line on buying a charter boat. I hate to go looking for that thread now to cut and paste this.. shoot, who knows.. could even be on a different forum. Ah well :-)

[JBBNE]

Originally Posted by Privleoplag

Sorry, thought I was posting that to some thread about where do you draw the line on buying a charter boat. I hate to go looking for that thread now to cut and paste this.. shoot, who knows.. could even be on a different forum. Ah well :-)

when I was looking at the big 3, Leopard, Lagoon, Pajot.. ok 4 if you include Privilege, it came down to having a separate head for each cabin. I was looking at a cat.. and for sure didn't want 4 cabins or 5 cabins with 4 or 5 small heads, so I drew the line at cabins with individual heads. And then Leopard came out with the 3 cabin owners version in the Moorings charter fleet. Perfect. 1 large head and one small head. And you know what they say.. 1 head is good, 1 1/2 heads, even better.
So, personally, I drew the line at the number of heads. And then all the other things particular to a boat that had to be compared.


Yes epiic, I think you missed the point. You asked when you draw the line? When you find a "specific make,model of boat", (charter or not) that meets your parameters, you have "drawn the line".

Priveloplags post was I thought, excellent advice. Made perfect sense to me.

Cheers

John

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

There's a lot of good advice already posted but I would add that even though this is a sailboat, after you've replaced the sails, the problem most likely to cost you a lot of money will be replacing the engine(s) and surrounding equipment.


Good luck

John Mardall
Vetus Group.

What a load of dogs bollux.

In my 8 years floating I never heard of these problems.

The main reason people replace the sails are to get rid of the Sunsail red UV cloth.
As for engines... A Yanmar with 4,000 hours is a baby.

As someone said earlier, the only people who slag excharter boats have never had one...

[reed1v]

One of the all time best charter boats built was the CSY series of cutters. Very strong hulls, solidly built inside and out, designed specifically to deal with charter folks who abuse boats. Huge room inside, seaworthy, and easy to sail. Outside of cosmetic work, doubt if one would find much wrong with these boats.

[bglad]

Corrosion! It can run well and be in decent shape but if it has been run with showering leaks in the engine bay corrosion can cause servicing nightmares. Thinned metal on accessory parts and fastener heads eroded and seized to a point that removal may not be possibly with normal hand tools.

I know of two Fontaine Pajot power cats that had leaking tanks caused by open portlights allowing water into the hull. Clean up was good except no one looked inside the berth and emptied the accumulation of saltwater around the aluminum tanks.

Systems seem to get pared down to the minimum necessary and easily sustainable. If this minimum was installed by the original builder that is fine but if it has been reduced and modified from original by individuals without proper skill sets there can be surprises there too.

Know your $ numbers. It is surprising how quickly they add up. Sometimes showstoppers appear but you can just as easily bleed out from a thousand cuts.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by bglad

Corrosion! It can run well and be in decent shape but if it has been run with showering leaks in the engine bay corrosion can cause servicing nightmares. Thinned metal on accessory parts and fastener heads eroded and seized to a point that removal may not be possibly with normal hand tools.

I know of two Fontaine Pajot power cats that had leaking tanks caused by open portlights allowing water into the hull. Clean up was good except no one looked inside the berth and emptied the accumulation of saltwater around the aluminum tanks.

Systems seem to get pared down to the minimum necessary and easily sustainable. If this minimum was installed by the original builder that is fine but if it has been reduced and modified from original by individuals without proper skill sets there can be surprises there too.

Know your $ numbers. It is surprising how quickly they add up. Sometimes showstoppers appear but you can just as easily bleed out from a thousand cuts.

I agree but I think this applies to any pre owned boat not just a ex charter boat.

There is fair wear and tear the will apply to any boat and something that applies specifically to ex charter.

Given that most ex charter boats are less than 10 years old you should look for things that should not have worn out yet.

The charter operator does a thorough check when the boat is returned and charges the customer for any repairs or breakage even if they are not essential for operation. So small things like some light fittings or upholstery gets replaced which an owner might not normally bother about.

I have an 8 year old ex charter boat and the only thing to happen which I would not expect to happen has been circuit breakers that failed to trip when some wiring shorted. Fortunately I smelled the problem in time. The electrician recommended some rewiring but I think this was from bad design rather than abuse or misuse.
Other things I have been annoyed by are hatch seals that have deteriorated and allowed to leak causing some plywood to swell and deteriorate. But apart from these nuisance repairs there has not been a problem of significance. A single user may or may not have attended these nuisances earlier.
The charter operator has kept a good log of routine repairs and maintenance including the diesel engine and winches. The engine purrs nicely.

I've been more than happy with my experience of an ex charter boat.

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