Advice and Help on the Economics of 'The Dream'

[Clownshoes]

Hey guys,

I have lurked on this forum for quite some time. I like many of you have the dream to sail all over the world and I hope you guys might be able to point me to some realistic cost analysis and economics of my plan.

Basically I just graduated from college and I'm 23 years old. I want to set out in 5 years and 100% before I'm 30. I would like to single or double hand most of the time so I have been looking at Tayana 37 or Kelly Peterson 44's. Something thats VERY sea worthy and still comfortable for 2 people, hence why I like heavy displacement monohulls. I really have no specific regions I would like to go all I know is I want to be able to go anywhere except the very cold water. I would very much like to do this for about 2-3 years specifically.

Now more on the economic side. Fortunatly I have zero debt and an Petroleum Engineering degree which pays very well as of today even for recent graduates. Basically I'm trying to figure out a reasonable budget I would need to save per year in order to be able to reach this goal in 5 years and set out for 2-3. I can live very frugal and I plan on saving as much money as possible.

I really like the Tayana 37's and I figure I can pick one up in decent shape for 80k. So for an example lets just assume Im looking for a boat in the 65-90k range. If I got a boat for 80k how much more would you estimate I would need to realistically achieve this goal of going in 5 years? I realize there are a lot of factors in this but I'm just looking for a rough estimate. I know some who claim they do it on 500/month. But I would estimate I would be in the low to average as far as lifestyle expenses. I don't really need alchol and or eat out at places as I plan on going more of an off the beaten track type of trip.

Any insights are appreciated guys.

[GordMay]

Boat $75 ➛ $100K
3 Years Expences $75 ➛ $100K
Total = ± $150 ➛ $200K

[UWOA]

You could probably do it for $100k ($1500 monthly expenses) if you lived very frugally and expected to be "out" for about five years. That doesn't take into account any emergencies that might arise during the timeframe, e.g. medical, storm damage, etc. -- but does include a "reserve" to keep you from being stranded.

You would do well to explore/develop any skills you might have that you can utilize to replenish your sailing kitty, keeping in mind that without work permits required in many countries that list will be very small.

[Doodles]

For starters take a look here ...http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nth-40051.html

[speedoo]

Congratulations on doing some excellent research on boats. I am very familiar with the KP 44 and it's a great boat for your purpose. HOWEVER, when you look at KP 44's there are some problem areas that you should know about:

1. tanks... both water and fuel tanks, if original will most likely need replacement and replacement is difficult and expensive because of their location.

2. teak decks, if they are still on the boat will need to be removed... there are probably good fiberglass decks underneath the teak, but they will need to be patched up, sealed and painted. Of course, there is also the possibility that water intrusion over the years has gotten into the plywood core of the decks which will also be expensive to repair.

3. genoa tracks may need to be rebedded, and this is a nasty job because of the bulwark structure.

And of course the original engine may need to be replaced or rebuilt, and the condition of the sails is very important because the boat is big and heavy and there is a LOT of sail area.

So if you go the KP 44 route, you may be able to acquire one for $100k, but you will probably have spend on refit and a boat budget of at least $150k total is what I would suggest.

There is an excellent KP 44 owner's group on the web at kp44.org.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Clownshoes

Any insights are appreciated guys.

The other posters are right in the ball park for figures (except IMHO the $500 per month - but still read the thread)

My comment comes from another direction.

If you are on a graduates salary in the oil business and you work zealously hard for 5 years saving as much as you can and rejecting the charmed like of idiots your age who guzzle $40 bottles of wine and sniff $100 up their nose and then go dancing all night, if do go by bus or clunker instead of a red racer, if you stay in the mens quarters off shift instead of playing poker in the canteen, if you invest wisely every cent you get (no get rich schemes)....


If you do all those things then you will by far have enough money at the end of 5 years to go cruising and be able to afford the carousing you missed

I absolutely guarantee it.

Set a goal and pluck the damn thing down



Mark

[Clownshoes]

Thanks for the insight guys.

@mark, Luckily I'm not a big party guy or boozer so I can avoid those expenses for the most part. I hopefully will be a drilling engineer which means I can camp out on rigs for a month and not spend a dime of my own money. But at the same time not exactly much of a social life. Like you said I plan to make up for all that on the trip though.

Another financial question... Would it be better for me to actually finance a boat say 2 years from now with as much of a down payment I can and then pay it off within a year or 2? I don't actually have much sailing experience besides smaller sail boats and very short day trips. I figure that this would give me 2 or 3 years to outfit and get used to the boat before I actually set off. I guess I'm asking would the marina fees and related expenses/ insurance be worth it just to "get used to it"?

[Drew13440]

Save your money and get as much experience sailing in OP's boats as possible. The boats you are talking about are very expensive to own - you will spend thousands annually on slip fees alone. Your line of business also strikes me as unconducive to a steady paycheck in the same place for a long time - you'll have $$$ opportunities anywhere in the world as long as all you own is a duffelbag.

And sailing OP's boats will give you good perspective on what kind of boat to ultimately buy, and just as importantly, how to fit it out wisely for your plans.

[MarkJ]

Drew makes a good point of learning on someone elses.

When we went cruising we flew to the other side of the world and started looking for boats to buy and immediately go off.

Obviously I knew how to sail

Yacht clubs allways love volunteers to crew on the weekend races and once your on a boat you can look around at all of them and find out whats good and whats bad.

The other thing is 5 years is a long time in the modern boat building world. Prices are coming down as construction techniques are getting better. There is a fair chance you could aford a near new boat... that hasn't even been designed yet.

If you buy a boat now you pay, as Drew says, all the maintenace & marina fees, but more importantly you may miss the largest inovation to hit cruisng yachts in 50 years!

What is that innovation? No one knows yet

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

you work zealously hard for 5 years saving as much as you can and rejecting the charmed like of idiots your age who guzzle $40 bottles of wine and sniff $100 up their nose and then go dancing all night, if do go by bus or clunker instead of a red racer, if you stay in the mens quarters off shift instead of playing poker in the canteen, if you invest wisely every cent you get (no get rich schemes)....

If you do all those things then you will by far have enough money at the end of 5 years to go cruising and be able to afford the carousing you missed

I absolutely guarantee it.

Maybe so. but IMO kinda misses the point of being in yer 20's. Being young and feckless can be fun

But if OP insists on saving his money I suggest investing in a wall..................and then p#ssing the rest of his money up against it

Of course I am not a licensed / regulated Financial Advisor

[ViribusUnitis]

I'm working on what you suggested, in the oil bussness. I finished college about 4 years ago with a BS in Chemical Engineering. I work for an oil service company.

1. Do you have a job? If not not working, don't do ANYTHING untill you've figured out what that job is going to require you to do. If your going to be in the field, your going to work overtime. LOUGHTS of overtime. The oil bussness in general works loughts and loughts of overtime, and has very little understanding of holidays, or days off. It's mostly just the nature of the bussness.

If your going to be in the office, you'll have more time to yourself, but you'll still probably get called in on some weekends and some holidays.

2. Don't buy anything untill your ready to go. Find a way to race on other peoples boats, or crew on other people boats, or something. You MIGHT try buying a boat as a liveaboard, but as an engineer in the field, you won't have much time to work with it, or on it. It's generaly best to rent the cheapest crappy apartment you can find, and then live on the rig. Many many people go as far as living in used traval trailers when they're off, and then living on the rig, and taking every job they can get.

3. When you get time, join a sailing club, and crew. Take courses on how to sail. Crew on other peoples boats as they move them. More than likly, it seems like you won't have time to really get around that untill you get much closer to timeto be ready to go.

4. Don't resiste the temptations of the fair sex too much. It's good to go sailing with a mate. Just make sure she understands what you want before you get too involved.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Maybe so. but IMO kinda misses the point of being in yer 20's. Being young and feckless can be fun

How the hell would I remember my 20's? I was stoned that decade. Hang on, no, I was drunk.

Do you remember yours?

Like 'If you remember the 60's you weren't really there' some dugged artist said. I was far too young for the 60's. Its the next few decades that get hazy...

But now we have grown up we need to say this 'save your pennies' crap to 23 year olds.

Mark

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Do you remember yours?

I'm told that I particulerly enjoyed 1987 . All I remember is it being a bl##dy good night ...........and then there was the 90's

I got old in the late noughties though If it comes to me it will get anyone ..........23? I wouldn't waste it - plenty of time later for being sensible. and if yer lucky then you can look back at all the things you can't remember / didn't do and be glad you did them, be surprised you survived and mightily releived you don't have to do it all again .............even if you do sometimes do miss craziness on a stick.

But each of us makes different choices on what is "fun".

[Boracay]

The only part of the above I'd disagree with is renting an apartment. I'd suggest finding a small (maybe studio) apartment in a nice area, convenient to your family/work and buying it. It's going to be your cave and bolt hole, and let's employers know where to find you. When negotiating with potential partners home ownership presents an attractive image. Something furnished that can be rented short term while you're away may be best.

My other suggestion (though I became attached before it became dominant) is to do most of your socializing on the net. It's cheap and you can get to have quality one on one time with a very large number of potential partners, and could even be done from an oil platform. Getting drunk in night clubs can be expensive, self destructive and is no longer necessary.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

How the hell would I remember my 20's? I was stoned that decade. Hang on, no, I was drunk.

Do you remember yours?

Like 'If you remember the 60's you weren't really there' some dugged artist said ...

Grace Slick, or whomsoever*, was referring to the drugs we all supposedly took back then when she said,” if you remember the 60's, you weren't really there.”

* Many people think they remember who said this. The problem is they disagree: Paul Kantner, Robin Williams, Paul Krassner, Pete Townshend, Grace Slick, Timothy Leary, and many others have been credited with the saying. Of course, no one who was there really remembers.

Well I know I didn't do drugs . . . or at least I don't remember that I did; and the fact that I don't, proves I was there!

From the Unknown philosopher:
"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs. "
"LSD melts in your mind, not in your hand. "
"Drop Acid, Not Bombs!"

"Better living through chemistry.” ~ Dow Chemical advertisement

"Avoid all needle drugs. The only dope worth shooting is Richard Nixon." ~ Abbie Hoffman

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." ~ Hunter S. Thompson