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Old 24-06-2011, 11:57   #31
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

for less pricey boats , ditch the broker and look yourself. they exist and are better purchases.
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Old 24-06-2011, 11:59   #32
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Enlighten me please, why does a yacht sailed in freshwater not need the rigging changed periodically?

Pete
Because it tends not to corrode, nor is there the usual risk of electrolytic action, although one has to look for passivation trouble, meaning a good coat of dielectrical goo or lanolin, etc. is a good idea.

My standing rigging is fine. I inspect and service all turnbuckles, tangs and terminals every season. I sail with confidence in 30-40 knots, but then I reduce sail early as this boat's a touch tender. I replace pins and rings as needed. I suspect I will, within the next two years, replace it "just because" and I want to replace the sheaves to take all-rope halyards instead of the (also original) wire/rope spliced stuff.

I happen to agree with the 10 year rule in salt, and definitely in warm brine as is found in Florida/Carib waters. But our rigs see only six months' use (I haul out my mast every year) between layups, and I suppose you could think of it as "19 years old" in that respect.

This isn't my idea. My experience reflects the local reality. If I raced, I would strain the rig more, but I don't, and it isn't.
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Old 24-06-2011, 12:03   #33
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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Catalina 30...
I have a 1983 C30 in Marina del Rey. I bought the boat a year ago. Trying to think how I could spend $32k on improvements and upgrades...OKAY I got it! Nowhere!

When I moved her to my slip, I spent the evening sipping cocktails and making lists of all the fabulous new equipment to get. I googled every marine repair facility for miles, noted phone numbers and yelp reviews. I priced equipment and spares from WM, Torrsen, Defender, and put the data into spread sheets.

Around Memorial Day I spent 12 days at Catalina Island, moored or hooked. It was wonderful. I had a great time and learned a ton about my boat. Allow me to share:

The C30...voluminous inside, fairly well equipped- about 5 steps above tent camping, and 5 steps below Motel 6. I have a dc fridge, propane range and proper tank storage, 6 gallons hot water, sufficient battery storage. Everything you need for a nice weekend. Compared to other 30's I think she has a light weight hull that responds and turns on a dime, but moves on a rhumb line like a fully clothed fat chick in a wave pool= SLOW.

You are WAY over estimating both the repair/improvement budget, and the boat as a whole. (And I agree with other posts about the price- you're a walking dollar sign if you're okay with dropping $32k on a C30. Mine listed for $21k, closed for $15.5.) My point is that in 12 days at anchor on the Island, I learned that the C30 is an excellent starter boat. She's a great weekender for two. Perfect for a single hander for a week. But she is NOT a long term live aboard, blue water, go anywhere, anchor for weeks, self contained, waterborne RV.

Bottom line: Buy her, enjoy. Spend for maintenance, but don't dump tons of cash in to make here something she's not. And if the PO over invested and wants YOU to pick the bill up...don't do it!

Ken
This guy knows what he's talking about! The Catalina 30 is a good starter, but it's "single hander for a week" quality. Me, I would sacrifice a little space to have a better sailing boat, but I sure as hell wouldn't pour money into a situation that's like putting a gold toilet in the backseat of a Chevy Nova.

Nothing wrong with Novas, of course. They were practical transport in the Seventies...
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Old 24-06-2011, 13:31   #34
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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Yes, it's a reasonable approach, but that price is nuts in my view. (BIG snip) A Catalina 30 of that vintage has a too-small rudder in my view and I've seen them broach too easily on a run in more than 22 knots. All these boats probably have A4s in 'em.
My bad. I didn't specify the year of the boat that I'm looking at. (I made the mistake of posting that the boat was "a quarter-century old" with the assumption that a reader could do the math. The boat is a 1988, and it has a Universal 23 hp diesel with low hours.

Everyone is telling me that the price is nuts, but when I look at Yachtworld at the '88s available, the lowest price is $19,900, and it's in SC. The highest is $35,000, and it's in Wisconsin. The average price on 13 boats is $29,694, and many of those are salt water boats, so $32,000 (incl. dinghy and motor) is not so very far away from the average. There are only two Cat 30s shown in Canada for the period 1987-1989. As I've previously said, higher prices in Canada are a fact of life. I could start looking further afield.

I've been told that 'saltwater specials' are not a bargain by any stretch of the imagination. It has been suggested to me that a year in salt is like seven in fresh. $2,000 more for a fresh-water boat with dinghy does not seem unreasonable to me.

Having said that, the deck repair is of concern to me, and I obviously have no intention whatever of paying the asking of $32,000. Not by a long shot.

In addition, the comments with respect to the suitability of this boat for our purposes has given us cause for pause. I will consider the situation further, as I am in no rush. I got rushed by a broker last time, and had plenty of time to repent in leisure.

Thank you, for your comments.

Regards,

Nomad
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:23   #35
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

In general, the prices shown in the magazines and listings are "asking" prices. It is common that the actual selling price can be and is significantly less than the "asking" price dependent upon "your" surveyors report and the desire of the seller to get rid of the boat.
- - But location, and your time frame available to find and purchase a boat will likewise affect the final price you are willing to pay.
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:24   #36
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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Originally Posted by ksuberk View Post
Catalina 30...
I have a 1983 C30 in Marina del Rey. I bought the boat a year ago. Trying to think how I could spend $32k on improvements and upgrades...OKAY I got it! Nowhere!


You are WAY over estimating both the repair/improvement budget, and the boat as a whole. (And I agree with other posts about the price- you're a walking dollar sign if you're okay with dropping $32k on a C30. Mine listed for $21k, closed for $15.5.) My point is that in 12 days at anchor on the Island, I learned that the C30 is an excellent starter boat. She's a great weekender for two. Perfect for a single hander for a week. But she is NOT a long term live aboard, blue water, go anywhere, anchor for weeks, self contained, waterborne RV.


Ken
Ken,

Your boat is a 1983, the one I'm looking at is a 1988. I looked at Yachtworld and found 21 1983s, the average price of which is $19,626.95. For some reason, the average price of 13 1988s is $29,694, a substantial difference I can't account for. (I vaguely recall that the earlier ones had smaller diesels in them.)

Then there's the salt/fresh water price differential.

Regards,

Nomad
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:28   #37
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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for less pricey boats , ditch the broker and look yourself. they exist and are better purchases.
Zeehag, I certainly do believe you're quite right. I did not go to the broker looking for a boat, but rather I looked on Yachtworld for the boat, and it just happened to be listed with a broker I've dealt with and am comfortable with.

We plan to have a look around over the weekend.

Nomad
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:31   #38
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

Check the bulletin boards, walk the docks, every other boat is for sale.
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:32   #39
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

Catalin 30, $32k, in todays market, don't be taken for a sucker. Re-read Zeehags comments. Drop this particular Cat 30. Look in yachtworld at boats on the east coast. Look in the 40k range and go in with an 80% offer and expect a counter offer. You will be able to get a catalina 36 fairly easily that needs very little to be coastal ready if not already. Just don't shop the west coast. I am shopping there and will be buying in the very near future and would hate for you to buy the boat I am eyeing. Good luck.
On the surveyor subject. Find one with lotsa sailboat experience, let him know you want to be on board during survey and will be very inquisative. Don't use the surveyor that is undercutting the market, pay fair market value.
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:41   #40
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Enlighten me please, why does a yacht sailed in freshwater not need the rigging changed periodically?

Pete
They just need the rigging 'rotated' every 10 years, because they only sail in circles
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Old 24-06-2011, 14:43   #41
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

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In general, the prices shown in the magazines and listings are "asking" prices. It is common that the actual selling price can be and is significantly less than the "asking" price dependent upon "your" surveyors report and the desire of the seller to get rid of the boat.
- - But location, and your time frame available to find and purchase a boat will likewise affect the final price you are willing to pay.
Quite so, but the difference between the two here is Canada is not as large as in the U.S. My understanding is that it is usually in the range of 10%. As you suggest it is about location.

Nomad
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Old 24-06-2011, 15:15   #42
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

Thanks to the advice I've received from the members of this forum, I have realized my mistake. I've been looking for the wrong boat. Yes, there are so many Catalinas available, in the U.S. Here in Canada, there are so very few. I believe the reason for that is very simple: historically, they have been very expensive to import.

Intuitively, I have always realized that. Back in 1987, one could buy a new CS 36, or a Catalina 36, for the same price, due to the exchange rate and import duty and taxes. A cursory overview reveals a world of difference between these boats. I ought not to have been surprised that there are so few Catalinas here.

As per the suggestions received, I am going to start looking around to see what is available here, and stop looking for what is not available. No sense paying through the nose for a whooping crane.

If I don't find something I can live with, I can always broaden my search area, until I do.

Thank you all, for the kind advice you have provided.

Warmest regards,

Nomad
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Old 29-06-2011, 21:09   #43
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

An abandoned 87 Catalina 30 went for $3700 back rent, in a local yard. Had a foot of water/ice in her all winter though.... Talk about mold ! The guy should have taken the $11k I offered four years ago when she was still nice. Good luck in your search.
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Old 30-06-2011, 11:16   #44
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

"that's like putting a gold toilet in the backseat of a Chevy Nova." Have you nseen the price of a good Nova these days? :>)
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Old 30-06-2011, 15:07   #45
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Re: A 'No-win' situation

Define "good Nova".
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