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Old 08-04-2012, 19:04   #61
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Re: A moral dilemma

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
throw in a couple of life jackets,and a copy of the darwin awards..............

it's a free market,caveat emptor!

I thought the suggestison of taking him out to demonstrate the boat's operation was a very good one.
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Old 08-04-2012, 19:42   #62
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Re: A moral dilemma

Allow me to put in a word for the boat. Most people develop a certain attachment to their boat and when time comes to sell they want it to go to a good home. Considering the time and money you have (presumably) invested in it, would you want it to go to someone who has no knowledge of marine maintenance? You know what will happen at the first freeze if he does not know to winterize the boat. That kind of damage is a sure thing. Smashing the boat up on a rock ledge is a maybe.
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Old 08-04-2012, 19:58   #63
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Re: A moral dilemma

Did not read all the threads so perhaps this has already been suggested.

If he is willing to make a non-refundable deposit on the boat, offer him a weekend of “cruise and learn”….as part of the sale.
This way he can learn all the tricks to running the boat while you help him to develop the proper mindset of a safe boater.

He will be like a sponge learning from a pro and you will have helped a novice to find himself on the water
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:01   #64
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Re: A moral dilemma

Can you imagine if you wanted to buy a boat, and the seller wouldn't sell it to you unless you took all sorts of advice or even lessons? Would that be pretty outrageous? I would drop my offer.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:10   #65
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Re: A moral dilemma

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Originally Posted by jzk View Post
Can you imagine if you wanted to buy a boat, and the seller wouldn't sell it to you unless you took all sorts of advice or even lessons? Would that be pretty outrageous? I would drop my offer.
Outrageous or not, I see a lawsuit hidden in there somewhere. Like selling a gun to a criminal. Or wrongful death. You never know!
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:14   #66
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Re: A moral dilemma

my boy friend and i bot a boat together and neither one of us had owned a boat, managed a boat(our new one was 16ft) worked on a boat or ever driven a boat. but we were determined to have, experience, own, and drive a boat on water. we had a dream and we wanted it bad. i think this is a personal call. there is no recourse back to the owner if the buyer can't operate the boat. BUT, just like me and my boyfriend- we had a passion and we wanted it so back we were going to experience it. within 14 mos, we sold that boat(for a profit) we bot a Ski Nautique and i was driving my boyfirend and friends, doing barefoot skiing , multiple skiiers, sky around the boat, etc. got to start somewhere and you got to take a chance. there ain't no guarantees.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:18   #67
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Re: A moral dilemma

It took a YEAR or more to sell my cruising boat which had everything a cruiser could want.
The couple who finally bought my boat had looked at it for a whole year, but couldn't pull the trigger because they didn't know they needed all the cruising stuff it had.

(Windvane? What's that?, Why six fans?...Vacuum panels? What are they? etc...)

After they purchased the boat and sailed it back to Mexico, they gushed about its unrealized qualities for a couple of years via email.

Maybe this guy will be like that.

Sell it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:24   #68
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Re: A moral dilemma

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Can you imagine if you wanted to buy a boat, and the seller wouldn't sell it to you unless you took all sorts of advice or even lessons? Would that be pretty outrageous? I would drop my offer.
No need to make it conditional, just a kind offer that is designed to satisfy the Seller's concerns and strong sense of ethics
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:40   #69
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Re: A moral dilemma

I'd sell it...just make some safety suggestions and that's it. He's a big boy and made it this far. Remember what the two happiest days in the life of boat ownwership...
The day you buy it and the day you sell it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:48   #70
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Re: A moral dilemma

i agree with Celestialsalior.
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Old 08-04-2012, 21:10   #71
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Re: A moral dilemma

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No need to make it conditional, just a kind offer that is designed to satisfy the Seller's concerns and strong sense of ethics

Not sure why the seller would have any concern at all. If people took that attitude, would another car ever be sold? Hey, why not get in the left lane and drive under the speed limit because anyone going faster than you will surely have an accident! Didn't mean YOU, but you see where I'm going with this?
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Old 08-04-2012, 22:24   #72
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Re: A moral dilemma

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I have a chance to sell our 25' express cruiser (not an easy sell nowadays) to a fella with a young family. He has Zero, absolutely Zero experience with boats of any kind. Spent two hours yesterday explaining every system of the boat and how to operate it. He didn't even know what a bilge blower was for.

He seems adamant this is the boat he wants.

I really don't believe this is an ideal first boat for this guy. I'm afraid he'll hurt himself or his family with it. The boat is powerful enough that if operated improperly it could be dangerous. If he's going to operate it where he says, a large but shallow lake with plenty of good ole' Canadian Shield granite outcroppings the first thing I can see him doing is ripping the outdrive or props off it it.

He hasn't taken any boating courses and doesn't have a Pleasure Craft Operator Card and has absolutely no idea what he's getting himself into.

I guess the dilemma is, do I sell it to him (take the money and run) and wish him luck or refuse to sell it to him and maybe save him or his family some grief.
It sounds like me when I bought my first boat. Everybody learns from experience and makes mistakes in the process and hopefully learns from their mistakes. You are doing him a great service by spending 2 hours going through the systems on your boat. The guy who sold me my first boat didn't even bother to do that.

Ultimately, the buyer is taking responsibility for his decisions. If he feels this is the boat for him, he might be correct. As long as you exercised due diligence and explained the systems to him and explained the risks -- and made sure he understood them, you have committed no ethical misdeed.

Best of luck to you, either direction you decide to take this.
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Old 08-04-2012, 23:20   #73
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Re: A moral dilemma

Short and sweet: I have a friend who worked in dealerships. As part of his job he frequently sold bikes to owners who wouldn't be able to manage them. Legally not his fault, morally not his fault since he tried to get them onto smaller bikes. Didn't make it any easier for him to live with the results of one of those riders wrapping it up.

Do what you need to do to sleep easy at night.

What that is is between you and yourself. The sea trial idea makes sense, whether you are "right" for discriminating on experience doesn't matter.

Right or wrong, looking back at something you didn't do that you feel badly about is a tough load to carry.

Your boat, your rules.

EDIT: Whether it goes so far as to nannying as making sure someone obeys speed limits doesn't really matter, though I feel it is somewhat different.
Everyone has the right to do what they need to to sleep soundly at night. You have the experience to back up your caution about him.
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Old 09-04-2012, 00:03   #74
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Re: A moral dilemma

I haven't read all the replies, but if you have the time and inclination, teach him how to use it after you've sold him the boat. Make the sale of the boat contingent on him being able to safely handle it. Include the lesson "fees" in the sales price if you like.

Ah, ok, I see Pelagic's replies. Should have read this last page before commenting. At any rate, what Pelagic said. And what I said too!
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:04   #75
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Re: A moral dilemma

"That's a big part of it, 32 yrs in the Coast Guard. I've seen the results of reckless operation a boat a few times."


In a nutshell you have explained your problem... As an ex (or present) coast guard your job is all about saving people.. And the majority of the time they need saving on account of their own mistakes or plans stupidity!! as a profession you take pride in your work which is part of your whole life so you will naturally try to prevent an accident before it happens..

Unfortunately you simply cannot achieve that.. Or if you could you would have a already put yourself out of work as a CG!! Likes as not his first mistake will be to wrap a rope in the prop and need a tow back in... (we did!) it was a humbling experience but we learned from it.. Now after thirty years sailing I look think of some of my earlier adventures a wonder that I am still alive!!

I do however suggest that you do NOT take him on a weekend learning cruise as part of the sale.. If he is really that bad and causes some damage... Who will pay?
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