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Old 18-04-2016, 10:35   #46
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Re: 7 years of cost data

Dear Chuckr,
Many thanks for your overview.
I'm calculating an average of 3000 USD per year for two adults.
What would you estimate for a single person liveaboard, with a boat and itinenary like yours ?

THANKS,
V.
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Old 18-04-2016, 11:15   #47
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Re: 7 years of cost data

I'm just happy to know that I'm not the only one that would have alcohol in the top 10 expenses! Most years you spent more on drinks than diesel, clothing or boat parts!!
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Old 18-04-2016, 11:21   #48
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by Hoosiersailor View Post
I'm just happy to know that I'm not the only one that would have alcohol in the top 10 expenses! Most years you spent more on drinks than diesel, clothing or boat parts!!
Yeah I kind of wondered about it being that high myself, I think though I'm just a cheap drunk as in I buy cheap beer and that is 95% of my alcohol.
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Old 18-04-2016, 11:23   #49
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Re: 7 years of cost data

For those that have left and have done the budget thing,
How did you prepare? Did you do anything to determine what your budget would be, or did it just work out that you spent X amount of money?

Finally, these cost numbers, were they controlled? As in were you watching the monthly expenditures and say, Honey I know you want to go out to eat tonight, but we are getting pretty close to the budget?
Or are you doing as you please and it just ended up this was all you spent?
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Old 18-04-2016, 22:56   #50
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
For those that have left and have done the budget thing,
How did you prepare? Did you do anything to determine what your budget would be, or did it just work out that you spent X amount of money?

Finally, these cost numbers, were they controlled? As in were you watching the monthly expenditures and say, Honey I know you want to go out to eat tonight, but we are getting pretty close to the budget?
Or are you doing as you please and it just ended up this was all you spent?
I think chuckr had already answered that, at least indirectly: keeping a tab on expenses allows them to decide e.g. whether to do an upgrade this year or postpone it, maybe due to medical bills that can always jump up.

I'm also putting all my expenses into some ledger software (gnucash on OSX, if you want to know) and can find out exactly how much went for mooring, insurance, maintenance and upgrades for each and every month or year in the past.
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Old 18-04-2016, 23:20   #51
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Re: 7 years of cost data

I'm used to budgeting all the time for yachts albeit very large ones with professional crew.
But apart from salaries, the Key factors in calculating operating costs are pretty much the same for our smaller 2 to 6 person yacht:
1...Allowance for Planned Travel Itineraries. (Major Trips By Land & Air)...All expenses anticipated
2....Consumables (Food/Fuel/Cleaners/Spares Allowance etc)
3.....Planned Capital Expenditures
4....Planned Drydock /Maintenance Allowance
5....Administrative Costs....(All ship business items Insurance /Registration/Port Fees/ Permits/ Visa Extensions / office supplies etc....
6....Communication Allowance
7....Miscellaneous..... Tips/bribes/fines etc
8....Local Entertainment..... Meals/local tours/Souvenirs etc
9...Emergency Allowance....(Usually 30% of above totals)

This method makes it easy to code for YE assessment to help prepare next years budget.

Chucks more detailed categories are more personal in nature but whether it is lots of booze or expensive meals ashore...the bottom line is knowing approximately what you are going to spend annually and have those funds readily available so as to draw down from them
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:22   #52
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
I don't want to sound derogative.... but, well, I was also a financial analyst in corporate banking... my Q is:

How did your accounting actually CHANGE (IF ANY...) your expense planning!?

My reasoning is... quite a little! Reason is... individual expenses are small... many items are simple necessities....must-do...

and at Times we have (big) EXTRAORDINARY items we can't escape from....hauling, ripped sails, faulted engines, New Genny...thundered electronics...new blocks (1200eur for genoa
Rails...)

Indeed, what you DO NOT ACCOUNT FOR ARE THE VERY EXPENSES that YOU HAD TO GIVE UP (WITHOUT WRITING THEM DOWN, obviously so)... e.g.
Renting a car one more time
Swapping for another outboard
Planning some hotel stay
Giving up a ***Michelin restaurant
That jewel your spouse was looking at
A long trip inshore..
...

This list would be a measure for 'planning' i.e. phasing out important/yet unnecessary expenses
Absit iniuria verbis (no intention to offend :-) )
We skipped absolutely not one item, not one penny, nothing -- we do stay in hotels when we travel and in 2015 we went to Bulgaria, Romania, and down through Serbia and Montengro to Albania - we do not do Michelin rest, the admiral does not do jewels, we rented 2 cars that year - most of our travel is by bus or dolmus, ect
NOTHING IS LEFT OUT!
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:26   #53
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
Budgeting is about allotting resources over time, in order to
1.prioritize expenses
2.phase them in time
3. Avoid negative cumulative cash-flow
4.maximize ROA/ROI or overall life pleasure

This way, you exclude least profitable opportunities, ideally.
But in real life it is not about investments, but desirable expenses. Easy job, give the limit of available cash/credit.

Point is, in cruising extraordinary/unexpected items eat up the most of resources

And current/ordinary items are quite personal.


I had 2 new tooth implants in 3 years, 2000each... how can you/l f... account for this!? And my spirits' expenses are not those of anyone else here...

Any % breakdown, as a result, is personal and pointless :-)

Happy winds to all, they are free

you must not read well -- in 2014 I ripped a shoulder tendon and had shoulder surgery in Tunisia with 2 screws inserted - in 2015 the Admiral had hand surgery in Tunisia - we both had caps done in Tunisia
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:29   #54
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler View Post
Excellent work Chuck. Many thanks.

By the way.... I was digging in there to try to figure out how much you got stung for that "Tunisian carpet for the cabin sole." Those guys don't back off easily, do they?
I will have to look but I think the carpet was less than 600usd - I will look when we get back to the boat - BUT you have to do it at the right time and be patient
right time is off season when they are hungry for any sale and we walked out at least 5 times before we settled on a price - took a more than a couple of hours and a few glasses of tea -
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:36   #55
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
For those that have left and have done the budget thing,
How did you prepare? Did you do anything to determine what your budget would be, or did it just work out that you spent X amount of money?

Finally, these cost numbers, were they controlled? As in were you watching the monthly expenditures and say, Honey I know you want to go out to eat tonight, but we are getting pretty close to the budget?
Or are you doing as you please and it just ended up this was all you spent?
We just spend as we go -- We basically live on SS - we know what we got coming in and kinda watch what is going out. We do look ahead as we did in 2015 and tried to put money aside for a haul out and major pm on a few parts.
We just got hit hard with gall bladder surgery but we are looking at our 2016 sailing season and think we will be able to do it at perhaps a bit less cost than we have done in the past (fingers crossed)
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:41   #56
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by Vronsky View Post
Dear Chuckr,
Many thanks for your overview.
I'm calculating an average of 3000 USD per year for two adults.
What would you estimate for a single person liveaboard, with a boat and itinenary like yours ?

THANKS,
V.
Vronsky -- that is really hard to say -- there are fixed items like the boat stuff, dockage - ect - you would have to go through the list and take maybe 65% of the food and eat out (I eat more than she does) - 1/2 the alcohol, - stuff like that and then try to guess what the cost might be.
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:54   #57
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
We just spend as we go -- We basically live on SS - we know what we got coming in and kinda watch what is going out. We do look ahead as we did in 2015 and tried to put money aside for a haul out and major pm on a few parts.
We just got hit hard with gall bladder surgery but we are looking at our 2016 sailing season and think we will be able to do it at perhaps a bit less cost than we have done in the past (fingers crossed)
OK, that answers a lot. It's one thing to be a Hilton or Rockefeller and just keep track of spending, and another to have a set income that come Hell or high water you have to stay within, and yet another thing to have only X amount of money total, and once it's gone, your cruise is finished.
I will have a set income myself, I have some flexibility to set it now, by delaying Retirement, but time spent cannot be recovered of course.
It sort of re-enforces the concept that what you have to spend, is what it will cost to cruise, or at least after spending lots of time and effort trying to research it, is what i have come up with.
I've met on line others that can show it cost $5K a month to cruise as that is what they spent, but I'm beginning to suspect that is what they spend, because that is how much they have to spend?
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:57   #58
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Re: 7 years of cost data

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Originally Posted by Hoosiersailor View Post
I'm just happy to know that I'm not the only one that would have alcohol in the top 10 expenses! Most years you spent more on drinks than diesel, clothing or boat parts!!
A few nights of eating out (with drinks) results in about the same alcohol costs between my wife and I as the amount of diesel I use a year. Guess the question is whether we need to drink less or motor more.
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Old 19-04-2016, 10:05   #59
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Re: 7 years of cost data

I think this is great data and it is appreciated that you took the time to document and share this information. It makes me feel a little more comfortable in my plan, I've budgeted about triple for the first year for the "I don't really know what I'm doing" factor and learning the ins and outs. If I'm under great, if I'm over...geez I'm either a terrible sailor, very unlucky, or have had one hell of a good time.
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Old 19-04-2016, 19:53   #60
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Re: 7 years of cost data

Chuck, thank you for the very useful information. The numbers look similar to what other's have posted.

Later,
Dan
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