Originally Posted by goboatingnow
Captaingeo, your point reveals the inconsistency of your argument and shows the issue. You complain about sailboats sailing across your bow chanting right of way ( ie their the stand on vessel) yet you want the rules obeyed to the end.
But the rules do say that no matter what, who, where, when or why - all, I say again ALL vessels
have the duty and obligation to (shall) avoid collisions
at all costs!!!! You make it sound as if the rules will just lead to you down a path of doom like a runaway train about to fly over a missing bridge and then abandon you when it's too late. Hell, the Navigation
Rules have a rule
that tells you to ignore all of the other rules if necessary to avoid a collision!! How can it be any clearer???!!! You think that taking action to avoid collision in an extreme situation is a tossing out of the rules. Quite the contrary, the rules themselves allow you to make a departure
(not throw out) from the other rules to avoid a collision. If you have had to do this, you are still following the rules. Standing-on right up until a collision is a major violation (and pretty dumb) along with never giving-way, no matter if either vessel is a 965' container ship with a professional crew or a weekend warrior with his first boat.
I was arguing that sailboats in the main should not put you or themselves in that position and I believe the rules support that view that even as the stand on vessel the sailboat skipper must act to avoid collision and that does not include closing on a large ship. Whereas the opposite is true if the other give way vessel is small.
Your attitude is to use the rules when they are convenient to you. That is what I and many other professionals have a problem with.
Rules are not simply guidelines or a simple list of things you gotta do, each of which can be taken individually. They are a series of lawful obligations that depending on what type of vessel you are, where you are, where you're going and what kind of environment
you're operating in, promote and attempt to add order with the ultimate goal of preventing collisions
. The rules interact with each other, even spanning different Parts
- sometimes this applies; other times, that applies. You can't just look at or memorize one section of the steering
and sailing rules or just one set of lights and then consider your proficiency as "good enough." If you're serious about trying to further your seamanship and piloting, your ability to handle heavy traffic and the confidence to conduct your vessel properly in the most trying of circumstances when it comes to traffic, poor visibility, night-time running, etc - you HAVE to learn the Nav Rules. There is simply no other way around it. Read, study and hopefully memorize the entire book - the introductions, the application, definitions - literally, Rule 1 through Rule 37. Hell, I still flip through it every now and then.
In addition to some navigation, the Navigation Rules portion of a USCG Deck
Exam is the only module that requires at least a 90% to pass and it is the only exam where absolutely no reference materials are allowed. Professionals are expected to know this stuff cold. You could theoretically flip through Bowditch and "reteach" yourself navigation right there in the exam room, but that lack of intimate knowledge with regards to the Nav Rules can simply not be tolerated and for very good reason. There is no time to flip through a rules book when 10 vessels are converging on you at 20 knots.
Again, in my experience with deep-sea shipping
and towing, the problem is not with the rules themselves. The problem is with ignorance in regard to the rules and rumors flung about all over the web and in "safety classes" (such as the "sailing vessels are always the stand-on" or the confusion over the phrase "right of way" earlier in this very thread) with regards to what actually is a lawful operation of any vessel including not only who is stand-on or give-way, but the obligation required of BOTH vessels, not just the give-way.
Originally Posted by bewitched
Not a great example. Meeting a large ship there would invoke Rule 9 - Narrow Channels. And Rule 9b would preclude most of us here on this forum of being the stand on vessel.
A bit picky I know - sorry
The original point I was trying to make is that I try really hard not to ever be in a situation where I am the stand on vessel when a large container ship or the like is involved.
I believe that it is an entirely avoidable situation in all but a few very exceptional circumstances.
This is perfectly fine. Most people prefer to do this and I encourage it. I do not consider that a breaking of the Nav Rules since if there is never a Risk of Collision, then there is never a meeting, crossing or overtaking and accordingly, never a give-way or stand-on vessel.
What I don't encourage is when you or somebody else does
get into one of those "exceptional circumstances" that they think it's okay to just say "screw the rules" and then do something unpredictable. That's the confusion that makes us aboard that "large container ship or the like", cringe.