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Old 13-12-2010, 14:10   #16
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Yes,

big ship do alter course,but thenn again at times they are restricted, and toonage, not only the coloregs come into play. What's the saying? Don't be dead right!.........i2f
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Old 13-12-2010, 14:19   #17
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Yes,

big ship do alter course,but thenn again at times they are restricted, and toonage, not only the coloregs come into play. What's the saying? Don't be dead right!.........i2f
If they're restricted in maneuverability because of their work, confinement to a narrow channel, or draft, there are are indications they can use for those situations which will elevate their right of way.

Inland and International rule 9(b) states clearly that a smaller power boat (< 20 meters ) or a sailing vessel shall not impede a vessel that can only safely navigate in a narrow path (like a typical harbor channel scenario).

It's wrong (legally) for a captain to use the rules in their favor when it suits them and then ignore them otherwise. And it forces the stand-on vessel to violate the rules in order to avoid a collision.
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Old 13-12-2010, 14:30   #18
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Then what do you do about the freighter that does not see you? You going to stand on, or get the hell out of the bludi way? It has happened to me on the open ocean more than once. Going by the book is all good if everybody is doing it. Wait until you leave S.D., and you encounter one of those large understaffed fishing trawlers with no on on the helm. There are exceptions to rules just like the English language.......i2f
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Old 13-12-2010, 14:43   #19
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As it is with our smaller boats (assuming aft mtd prop's).
Quite right. I often sail in confined waters with manuevering cruise ships and always amazed at the antics of jet skis and sailboards in close proximity to the ships.
Dodging a 30ft broadside is a lot easier than a 600ft-er
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Old 13-12-2010, 15:05   #20
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Even if I am the stand on vessel I will alter if getting close and the bearing does not change. No use altering when you're far away. Now how close is close depends on the circumstances.
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Old 13-12-2010, 15:14   #21
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The difference in speed between a sailboat and larger vessels makes course corrections on the part of the sailboat ineffective unless made VERY early. Reminds me of a turtle crossing a freeway with a semi truck bearing down on him. I try to cross shipping lanes at a 90 degree angle when the coast is clear. Ferry routes and shipping lanes are on the chart. If you don't have a good reason to linger then don't.
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Old 13-12-2010, 15:45   #22
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I like this quote from one of the book's reviewers:

"... One can almost imagine a sequel written by a train engineer 'How to Avoid Parking on Train Tracks'. ..."
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Old 13-12-2010, 17:36   #23
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I disagree with the view that stand on vessels stand on. Firstly one should never stand on into danger. Secondly colregs do not absolve the stand on vessel from taking other actions if deemed necessary. Thirdly the colregs apply where the risk of collision exist. I ensure that I manoeuvre to avoid the risk of collision occurs.

Also the colregs does not give anyone the right of way

Dave
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Old 13-12-2010, 17:42   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I disagree with the view that stand on vessels stand on. Firstly one should never stand on into danger. Secondly colregs do not absolve the stand on vessel from taking other actions if deemed necessary. Thirdly the colregs apply where the risk of collision exist. I ensure that I manoeuvre to avoid the risk of collision occurs.

Also the colregs does not give anyone the right of way

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Oh Shoot... you've done it now Dave... someone's gonna start talking 'Galleys'....
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Old 13-12-2010, 17:49   #25
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Well it's my cat amongst the pigeons contribution

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Old 13-12-2010, 17:51   #26
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Even though you are most likely the "stand on" vessel forget colregs. "might has right".

If you're crossing at 90 degrees steer for the stern of the ship. It will pass in front of you.

If your heading straight on make a 90 degree turn until you are far enough to the "side" of its heading so you are able to resume your course.

If its coming from behind, do the same as above, make a 90 degree turn until your are to the side of its heading. Then resume your course.

All this is fine in the open sea. But be aware that he may make course changes closer to ports. Think ahead about any nearby ports, he may be going to, and the subsequent course changes he may need. Then you should be able to predict his course and adjust your helm accordingly.

We thought we were getting "chased" by a large freighter early one morning off a larger Queensland island. It wasn't until later we realized he was simply adjusting his course to head into a nearby port. Had we been a bit more awake we would have realized this and headed seaward instead of toward land, which subsequently left us in his course for some time.

The trick is to make definable course changes. If you zigzag your way into a collision zone, you will only confuse the helmsman on the other vessel. By making a large course change, he knows you are getting out of the way and knows he can stay on course without trying to maneuver 40000 tons at close quarters.


One last thing don't always expect them to see you anyway.

Cheers
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Old 13-12-2010, 18:02   #27
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Hi DenverdOn,
Yes, I've read this book and it's very good. The author is a Puget Sound pilot and gives a good account of what its like from the bridge of a large ship in restricted, busy water. One of the most interesting points he made was the relative appearance of distance from the deck of a small boat and that of the bridge of a ship- you may think he's far away while he's thinking you're right under his bow. My copy is a small paperback bought for $7.95. Well worth it.
John
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Old 13-12-2010, 18:46   #28
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Old 13-12-2010, 21:20   #29
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I disagree with the view that stand on vessels stand on. Firstly one should never stand on into danger. Secondly colregs do not absolve the stand on vessel from taking other actions if deemed necessary. Thirdly the colregs apply where the risk of collision exist. I ensure that I manoeuvre to avoid the risk of collision occurs.
Firstly, the reason the stand-on vessel needs to stand on, is to avoid steering into danger by acting in a predictable manner, allowing the give way vessel to avoid it. Secondly, there are occasions when the stand-on vessel may and must take action - this is defined in Colregs, so just follow the rules. Thirdly, how do you possibly avoid interracting with other vessels? Do you not go into port? Do you go the other way whenever you come in sight of another vessel? Wouldn't it just be easier to follow the Rules and carry on in the direction you want to go?

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If you're crossing at 90 degrees steer for the stern of the ship. It will pass in front of you.
If you're on his starboard bow, then you're the stand on vessel, and to do as you say, you would need to turn to port - an action that is specifically disallowed in Colregs.
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Old 13-12-2010, 22:35   #30
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If you're on his starboard bow, then you're the stand on vessel, and to do as you say, you would need to turn to port - an action that is specifically disallowed in Colregs.
Only if you are motoring.

I like these discussions on Colregs. I almost always learn something.

My take on the whole avoiding big ships thing is that if I've got myself into the position where I'm the stand on vessel and I'm relying on the other (very large) vessel to take action to avoid that collision, then I've not been paying very much attention.

Early manouvre - don't even get into a position where a risk of collision exists with these guys.
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