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Old 31-08-2012, 10:14   #1
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Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Problem with Yanmar 2YM15 heat exchanger filler neck led to quote for replacement from local authorized Yanmar sales/repair facility. Total cost included parts (filler neck and tube) and labor.

Subsequently while using browser search engine I stumbled upon Yanmar bulletin MSA2010-005 Heat exchanger Filler Neck... Emailed to the Yanmar mechanic just in case he didn't have a copy.

Short story is this bulletin has strict guidelines for installing the filler neck/tube, and requires 2 tools that must be fabricated locally. The owner/mechanic said I'd have to pay for tool fabrication. Yanmar America said no, he must pay for the tools. Then owner/mechanic said since my engine was no longer under warranty, I was basically free to approve "his way of doing" the installation.

Bulletin said doing it any other way than specified in the bulletin would affect warranty coverage. I declined to relieve the Yanmar business owner/mechanic of his responsibility to adhere to the bulletin. His response was to "refer" me to the local Yanmar distributor. Immediately following this "referral" was another "referral' claiming they cannot complete the work in a timely manner.

I don't want to attract the usual suspects who detest long posts - or who allege a thread amounts to a rant. So if you have interest in knowing more - ask.

Armido
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:47   #2
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

It seems to me that with your engine being beyond its warranty period, Yanmar has no liability if the repair fails whether or not the recommended Yanmar repair procedure is used or not.

I sympathise with the local dealer who would have to make the tools to do it Yanmar's way with no compensation from Yanmar. If you as the consumer are comfortable with the dealer's repair procedure, let them do it their way. They are the one who will have to fix it if it doesn't work.

David
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:42   #3
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

djmarchand,

Filler neck and tube replacement carries a 6 month warranty. However the bulletin expressly states if the repair is done any other way, Yanmar will not honor warranty claims. Period. Does not allow for an Authorized mechanic's failure to adhere to the bulletin as an excuse. So, the burden is on the engine owner to make sure (A) a bulletin related to of any type of scheduled repair does not exist and (B) to make sure the work is done accordingbto the bulletin if it exists.

Also, although the Standard warranty is expired, there is an extended Yanmar warranty on the crank shaft, cam shaft and other components which is in effect on my engine. So, if the filler neck repair fails and contributes to any of these components being damaged or failing, the bulletin makes no distinction - warranty claims will not be honored. I share your empathy for dealers who may not receive reimbursement for rarely used, single purpose tools. But, this is an issue between Yanmar and the reps. Yanmar engine owners are entitled to service and repairbin compliance with Yanmar policies and procedure.

By the way, I bought this engine new.

Armido
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:46   #4
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

It is telling that no Yanmar representative has endeavoured to comment in this thread, or offer owners of Yanmar marine diesil engines guidance if they are unable to obtain service or repairs because an authorized dealer/repair facility refuses to honor a quote affected by existence of a Yanmar bulletin.

The quote I have is dated August 06, 2012. The Yanmar distributor to whom I was referred demands $50/hr. travel time, charges more for labor and will cost significantly more than my original quote. This distributor also lacked the tools, but has had them made (available on August 30. The original authorized shop owner/mechanic can borrow the tools but says he cannot do the job until October. Too busy to finish a simple10-15 minute job. There is more, but may attract charges this is a "rant", so I'll not go there.

Should you purchase a boat with a Yanmar engine, or repower with the same if authorized Yanmar mechanics are willing to imperil your warranty coverage by "doing it their way" disrespecting the existence of a bulletin?

If authorized Yanmar mechanics regularly ignore, or fail to keep abreast of existing and new bulletins, you, and not Yanmar will bear the risk and suffer the consequences if repairs do not conform to an existing bulletin. Your 6 month warranty on this work will not be honored and may possibly affect other warranties you have in effect.

Will I purchase another Yanmar powered vessel or choose a Yanmar engine to repower? Never again.
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Old 06-09-2012, 17:23   #5
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

I just recently purchased a 2ym15 myself, and only have a bit more warranty time left - do you mind posting up that bulletin you were referring to, or a link to where you found it?
Thanks
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:44   #6
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Mayday12,

You can download the document directly from this link: http://www.labordeproducts.com/Deale...ler%20Neck.pdf

Although it is not the solution I prefer, the Yanmar distributor is letting me borrow the tools mentioned in the bulletin to affect the repair myself.

The original mechanic who agreed to do the job went ballistic when I visited his shop to find out, now that the tools were available, when he could do the job? Although he made the commitment a month and a half ago, said he could not do this simple job until October. Much time and many emails between myself, a Mr. Mike Dollfuss (customer service rep @ Yanmar America) and I presume between Dollofuss and the Yanmar distributor later - this resolution to the problem emerged.

"Mike Dollfuss" <MDollfuss@yanmar.com>

There was no way to communicate with this mechanic. Totally unreasonable.
Subject business is Gittens Engine Sales & Services, Chaguaramas, Trinidad.
Adian Gittens.

None of the Yanmar mechanics here have ever affected the filler neck & tube repair per this bulletin before. How do I know? They didn't have the tools... So, whether I do it or they do it - it would be a first for any of us. May as well be doing it myself.

Yanmar owners of the following engines are also affected by this bulletin.



• All YM models
• All JH4 models
• 4JH3-DTE
• All JH5 models
• All BY / BY2 models

Armido
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Old 07-09-2012, 13:56   #7
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

I have had similar problems with mechanics in the states. If you challenge them on their repair procedure, they sometimes decide that you are a troublemaker who may cause them grief if the repair doesn't work out to your satisfaction.

That is why I do all of my own work except for electronics stuff that requires factory equipment.

I wouldn't hesitate to tackle that filler neck job with Yanmar's tools and new filler neck. But I'll bet if you take the heat exchanger to a local radiator shop, they will fix it for you their way and it will work fine.

David
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Old 08-09-2012, 13:27   #8
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

David,

Looked at all possibilities for reattaching the original filler neck to the heat exchanger.

1.) Cannot braze aluminum.
2.) Tried epoxy, did not work.
3.) Last option considered was to remove heat exchanger and have an aluminium filler neck welded on. Did not want to remove heat exchanger. A pain in my small NorSea 27.
4.) Went to Yanmar to ask how they attached the filler neck to the heat exchanger. Learned about the replacement filler neck and tube method using anaerobic cylinder retainer.

See Flickr: svarmido's Photostream for pics of the tools, filler neck and tube. Last task for me before doing the job is getting the Loctite 603 or 601...

armido
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:36   #9
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Update:

Loctite 603 and 601 are being discontinued in U.S. (but can still be found from online vendors). This according to Southern Supplies, distributor of Loctite products in Chaguaramas and San Fernando, Trinidad. Cannot be ordered from overseas locations due to ORMD restrictions though. Still available in Europe but same ORMD restrictions probably apply. Shipping if possible would probably be surface - by ship. Long delay and higher shipping costs most likely since a shipping agent would most likely be required. Neither product is available in Trinidad.

According to Southern Supply Loctite 609 (in stock) can be used to fix the filler neck and tube to the heat exchanger. Problem is the 603/601 are specified for use where cleanliness cannot be guaranteed. Loctite 609 requires a clean substrate to work. These products are not equilavent in this regard and anyone using the 609 has the extra burden of ensuring cleanliness.

I am not prepared to accept this responsibility absent warranty coverage. If I do it there will be no warranty coverage, so I've passed completing the repair back to Yanmar. Puts me back in the same situation where I was before.

Remarkable is the fact Yanmar appears to have no control or authority over Gittens in particular, or the distributor (TrinTrac) who supposedly "set up" Gittens. You'd think Yanmar would tell Gittens to finish the job. Yet, I am told I'll have to use TrinTrac who is demanding more money because Gittens won't do the job. Ironic since TrinTrac "set up" Gittens. You'd think there is some legal obligation for TrinTrac to complete anything Gittens cannot or will not do at the quoted price. Gittens has issued a quote, ordered parts and written a letter to immigration saying he is doing all this and will install the parts when they arrive. He has reneged. The weekend now, so nothing further to report until at the earliest Tuesday, Sept 25 since Monday is a holiday in Trinidad.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:18   #10
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Sorta sounds like ya stepped on your own toe's !! Never start an argument ya can't finish !! Ive done it and it hurts! ya gotta buck up and pay the man and get your extra warrenty!!
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Old 21-09-2012, 19:02   #11
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Bob & Connie,

Care to shed some light on your experience? Not real helpful for you to make such a comment without an explanation. Whether I've stepped on my own toes is your opinion - pretty meaningless at this point.

armido
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Old 21-09-2012, 19:29   #12
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Well I will tell ya from ym experince in working in Diesel shops allover the Pacific for over 20 yrs ! When ya start telling them How they are going to do Your Job ! and then try to fix it yourself ! with there tools ! and then go back when ya cant !! ya stepped on your own toes !! how do you think the owner feels about your attitude?? If it were I, I would use the sign I had in my shop ! "Shop rate per hour, 20.00 if I do it ! 40.00 if ya tell me how! and 50.00 If ya help " Thats what I ment and thats my experince ! just sayin a workmans worth his weight in gold when ya treat em right !!
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Old 21-09-2012, 19:42   #13
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Bob & Connie,

Thanks for shedding some light on your comment. Very helpful.

Armido
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Old 21-09-2012, 20:28   #14
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Armido if you read the memo that you posted you are asked to use "loctite 603 or equivalent." All you need to do is find something that is available locally and ask for Yanmar's blessing. Problem solved.
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Old 22-09-2012, 06:42   #15
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Re: Yanmar Non-Compliance with Bulletin.

Charlie,

Not so simple. For other reasons not noted I've decided having warranty coverage for this repair is important. One, is Gittens view that Yanmar's method of doing this is "the problem". His way is superior. So, what am I to believe? Best policy is to have warranty coverage just in case Gittens is correct.

armido
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