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Old 20-01-2008, 17:37   #1
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Which boat?

I currently own a 2003 Jeanneau 49, based in Spain. It's got aircon, watermaker etc. already.

I want to keep a boat in Thailand, it would be useful if it had some charter potential (skippered).

I've had an offer to sell the Jeanneau - at a big loss on what I paid (circa 185K euros net - paid 280K e)

Do I?

- keep it and sail it to Thailand
- sell it and buy a steel heavy displacement Colin Archer 38/Van de Stadt 44 (similar money, what are your thoughts on these boats?)
- sell it, buy a boat in Thailand and fly out?

I know there's no "right" answer, but as a bit of a novice I'd really appreciate feedback/ thoughts.

Thanks!
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Old 20-01-2008, 19:03   #2
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Sail it to Thailand. Its a friggin sail boat. Jump on, pull the white things up, put Bankok in the gps and push the green button on the Auto Pilot.




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Old 20-01-2008, 19:16   #3
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My first thought was that you must not like your present boat much to sell it at a big loss. If you do like it why not sail it?
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Old 20-01-2008, 19:19   #4
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Like when the Three Amigos....

... promised to return the heroine asked...

"Why?"
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Old 20-01-2008, 19:32   #5
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Originally Posted by irwinsailor View Post
My first thought was that you must not like your present boat much to sell it at a big loss. If you do like it why not sail it?
It's my first sailing boat and I just wonder if its really up to the job. It's not very heavy displacement.

I guess one reason I'm concerned IS the fact its depreciated so much, despite still looking and feeling like a new boat with a massive inventory.

For getting to Thailand and keeping a boat out there long term is this the best bet? I have no idea of its re-sale potential if I want to swap it once it's out there so wanna make sure I take the right boat with me.

With an actual offer on it right now I still have the option of a virtual straight swap for the Van de Stadt and Colin Archer design steel boats. I may not get another chance to change the boat so easily.
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Old 20-01-2008, 19:34   #6
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Sail it to Thailand. Its a friggin sail boat. Jump on, pull the white things up, put Bankok in the gps and push the green button on the Auto Pilot.




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ounds good advice - its got a silver thing under the stairs too!
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Old 20-01-2008, 20:12   #7
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Originally Posted by zavier38 View Post
It's my first sailing boat and I just wonder if its really up to the job. It's not very heavy displacement. .
You have a near new 49 foot yacht and you want to trade it for a smaller boat which is how old? 20? 30? 40 years old? Just because someone has told you that your boat comes out of a factory but these other boats are steel.

A 49 ft Jeneau would lap up a quick spin arround the world! Especially by way of the tropics! And you have a choice of going cross the Med and down the red sea, or cross the Atlantic and Pacific. That means you can chose the best rtoute for whenever you want to go, or what you want to see on the way.

Don't let people sell you something they don't want by denigrating your near new large yacht with air and water!



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Old 20-01-2008, 22:44   #8
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Do you really want to...

Do you really want to spend your cruising time chasing rust and other peoples' mistakes?
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Old 21-01-2008, 01:13   #9
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Sail it to Thailand, don't take the depreciation hit, keep your excellent boat.

You'll get 185k for it in Asia, although it may move a bit slower. The saying here is that every boat is currently for sale awaiting the right price.
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Old 21-01-2008, 03:02   #10
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Quote:
I know there's no "right" answer, but as a bit of a novice I'd really appreciate feedback/ thoughts.
There really isn't a right answer. The fact that you have a low offer to purchase the boat isn't much to go on. I'm sure there are far lower offers if you tried to find one. If you were to sell the boat you would "put it up for sale" and perhaps do much better but nothing is certain. Is this a hurry up and leave situation?

Chartering really is a business not a "potential". If you don't have a business plan then you won't be doing any chartering in Thailand. The idea of living life grand while your boat makes you money sounds nice. Does not work that way though. You might come out ahead selling the boat for less than the offer you already have and just keeping the money. Your sense of business needs some adjustments before you are ready for such an undertaking.

You don't seem to know what you really want. You live in Poole, have a boat in Spain and want to go to Thailand. You have geographic limitations already while doing everything possible to make the situation more difficult. The easier solution seems to leave the UK now and live on the boat in Spain. Everything in one place all geographic problems are suddenly solved. Sort out personal issues and goals make a better plan. You have a serious navigation problem right this instant. Always best to get those solved first.

I have friends in Spain now on a much smaller boat and they love it. Nice boat in a nice place sounds really fun to me. Meanwhile, you can search for a buyer that will pay a better price while you enjoy yourself since all geographic problems are gone.

Maybe forget the buyer and sail some place. Maybe head to Thailand or spend the rest of your life not getting there. Talking as long as possible to go someplace is how the real cruisers do it. It works because they have everything all in one place! One persons life and belongings should not be scattered over half the planet at the same time. If you start at the point where everything is together you can better deal with taking a new course.

This may not be the best advice but you sure won't be out a lot of money undertaking a business plan on an old boat that would lose even more. The savings alone is worth a few years in Spain. You could then lose it all and still be ahead.
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Old 21-01-2008, 05:10   #11
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Reassuring that the boats seems to be up to the job - thanks. I prefer SE Asia for sailing to Spain, and getting there is pretty easy these days.

The boat's been chartered in BCN for 3 years - makes 25-30K euros pa give or take on day charter, mostly for stag and hen parties to go out on deck for day sails. It pays the bills there. It wasn't originally the plan, but the bills for gardienage add up really fast in Spain so it offset the costs. I paid UK VAT when I bought it - despite this the boat was arrested by the Guardia Civil, together with the skipper when on a charter as I haven't paid spanish "matriculation tax" at 12%. So much for a harmonised EU tax system. The upshot, after a six month legal tussle was that I'm now not allowed to use the boat or even step foot on it whilst its on the charter register. Discussions with lawyers in Spain and the Minister for Europe's office in the UK confirm that the Spanish are acting illegally. But I can't take on spanish state. I spend more time in Asia anyway - another reason why its not staying in Spain.

Thailand makes sense as I'm developing some land there to include a house for myself. Ko Chang archipelago is accessible from there within a day's sail.

As for chartering in Thailand - has anyone got any experience of this? If it helps "wash its face" with a good management company then I'm all for it. We've got the website etc + juristic structure in place and a good lawyer there already. I'm curious to see what other people's experience has been.

Looks like we're setting off with the Jeanneau to view to joining the MEd Red rally in March.
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Old 21-01-2008, 08:57   #12
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The boat is certainly up to the task of sailing to Thailand and you have now learned the most expensive part of boat ownership, depreciation. If you like the boat it is best to keep, time will eventually reverse or minimize the hit.

Like other have said, I would have a very hard time swapping an almost new Jenneau 49 for a steel cutter.
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Old 21-01-2008, 09:08   #13
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Originally Posted by zavier38 View Post

I guess one reason I'm concerned IS the fact its depreciated so much, despite still looking and feeling like a new boat with a massive inventory.

For a moment, don't worry about the resale. Ask yourself, "is this the right boat for me?"

What do you plan to use the boat for?
Does it meet the requirements of your *planned usage*?

If it does meet the planned usage, then of course keep her.
If it does not meet the planned usage, you first need to figure out what boat *will* meet the planned usage and then see if you can make the swap.

As to depreciation: A boat is a lot like a car in the beginning of its life. You will lose BAD on the first several years of depreciation. It's not the fault of the boat type/model. It's that you bought a new boat. Of course, I thank you for buying the new boat, or otherwise people like me would have few used ones to choose from. BUT... unlike a car, a boat will mostly "settle" its depreciation curve and flatten out after a period of time.

You have already eaten a large chunck of depreciation. You have that part overwith (although it will continue for a bit). If it's the right boat, it should be bought with the intention of keeping it as long as you plan to sail. If not, look for another.

Lastly, if you sell now, you will hurt yourself the most - just like a bad investor, buying high and selling low. You have already lost the depreciation (or a good chunk of it)... at least you can hold onto a very sharp looking boat for a while and enjoy it, provided it is the type of boat that suits your *planned usage*.
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Old 21-01-2008, 10:50   #14
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Like other have said, I would have a very hard time swapping an almost new Jenneau 49 for a steel cutter.
- I'm deighted to hear that. So many people in the UK have said that Jeanneau's weren't up to the job for extended cruising. It's really reassuring to hear that it is!

We're off in March. I'll post a thread about the trip nearer the time.

In the meantime, she's having her bum antifouled, sea cocks checked and serviced, new plotter screen (the last one got wet and broke), new generator exhaust, liferaft service, rigging inspection, some new sheets, and a 240V diving compressor fitted.
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Old 23-01-2008, 09:24   #15
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- I'm deighted to hear that. So many people in the UK have said that Jeanneau's weren't up to the job for extended cruising. It's really reassuring to hear that it is!
Look at it like this Zavier38, there's probably nothing wrong with your yacht... it's just a UK / French thing!

A bit like the American view on Canadians and similar inter-nation rivalry (wonder if the Aussie's and the Kiwi's are like it).

Just be thankful it's not a German yacht! (who won the war, we did, we did)
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