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Old 26-03-2018, 04:43   #16
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...994244-87-4287
https://de.dawanda.com/product/90659...ernaehmaschine

apparently these sew through multiple layers of webbing & sailcloth & a plasticbucket, zigzag too (saw this myself).
Adler K30 & singer 29: said to be practically identical
Nähmaschinen - Alte Nähmaschine refurbishes & sells them
quite a few though on ebay hereabouts (germany & austria)
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Old 29-05-2020, 12:29   #17
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

old thread I know, but maybe some one is still out there. I would love to own a sailrite, but not in my budget currently.. Found a National Sewing Machine "designer" for sale, does straight and zig zag. From 1950's, look strong and durable. Not walking foot.. but beggers can't be choosers...Price is right. So, Any reason not to purchase this machine? Parts might be hard to find, but other than that? Break alot, get out of timing. So on. I realize there probably are not a lot of people out there that have used one, but just kicking the bushes. It was made in Italy... If that helps.

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Old 29-05-2020, 12:36   #18
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

I had good experiences with an old singer. Built two complete sails, resized a few more, and many repairs and alterations. The motor had been replaced before I bought it, and I did not have a single major issue with it myself. You can find them in varying arms lengths. Used about 80watts.
Edit - About $180 if I remember right, plus another $60 shipping from the UK. Mother-in-law recommended to me some of the old communist era machines that are now being cleared out and sold from the factory she worked at. Not sure what they're called though.
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Old 29-05-2020, 12:45   #19
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

Hey, I’m the OP of this thread and I’m not familiar with that machine but I can offer my opinion.

I now own a handful of old machines that my wife constantly teases me about. The one I use now
is a Pfaff 130 which I love and made a custom table for. Someday I’ll buy a mint condition version to match the table. It’s a super common machine and parts are readily available, which I think may be an advantage over what you’re describing.

Ultimately I think it comes down to whether you want to do work on marine canvas and upholstery or actually work on sails. For really serious sail work you don’t just need a strong zigzag machine, you actually need the triple thread zig zag which you’re not likely to find. None of my several old machines, awesome as they are, can really handle the job of sail repair so I still take my sails to a loft when I need something done. I was able to make a large amount of items out of sunbrella, including Bimini Velcro flaps for solar panels which involved sewing through 6+ layers of sunbrella at a time.

If it’s a cool machine and you mainly want to make winch covers and repair a few things, etc. I say absolutely go for it. If you need something reliable in preparation for an ambitious refit or circumnavigation, I’d say don’t waste your money on something that won’t be good enough.

All these old machines are beautiful in my opinion so I wouldn’t discourage you, but if your partner will not like the look of all the broken ones sitting around, just take that into consideration
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Old 29-05-2020, 13:08   #20
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

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Ultimately I think it comes down to whether you want to do work on marine canvas and upholstery or actually work on sails. For really serious sail work you don’t just need a strong zigzag machine, you actually need the triple thread zig zag which you’re not likely to find.
While objectively true, if you're double/triple seaming then it doesn't make too much difference if you're looking after your sails. Although I hand sew for important parts. Which is stronger than both options. You will see a normal zig zag on professionally made sails, although I am aware of its flaws. A hand sewn zig zag doesn't have that same cascade failure possibility though, unless you use an awl.
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Old 29-05-2020, 13:26   #21
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

The locking of a normal zig zag stitch will still not rip right open under the normal stretch of the sail, and other stitching runs on the same seam would have to also be damaged to allow that to happen. Basically, if you're inspecting your sails occasionally there is no reason to have an unexpected failure. Granted, even on sails with normal zig zag stitching I have seen, which were a fair few, but I guess by the time I saw them they were not new, the reinforced areas often had the three part zig zag. The Sailmaker's Apprentice book thinks that the three part zig zag is too stiff for a seam, but I know many disagree.
I feel that many of the opinions are hear from the US come from Sailrite's website.
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Old 29-05-2020, 13:40   #22
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

Im using a Necchi BU Nova for canvas. 8 layers of Sunbrella is just ok, but it works.
It works well for upholstery and zippers etc.

Heavy cast iron from the 1950s.
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Old 29-05-2020, 14:31   #23
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

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Old 29-05-2020, 14:39   #24
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

Just wanted to see if that worked,,, I am still new around here. lol. @capt black thank-you again for the info, and @OrangeCrush thank you also. If you had to choose between this, and a sailrite straight stitch only which would it be. Fyi, I do everything myself. So, likely this thing will be put through the wringer, or a least taken to just past it's capabilities. I will be making a huge dodger for a cross 38, and repairing for now, possibly making sails in the future, adding reefs and fixing tacks, bolt ropes, leech lines, and so on. I don't like relying much on others for the doing part of things. But I love to ask questions, as Capt Black already knows. I believe you are correct parts might be tough to find, but if I can find a mini lathe and mill, I could just make them, also. I might just hold off and get a sailrite, this guy looks pretty robust. I believe it National Sewing Machine Co. "Designer" Model. Formerly Bugatti, circa 1952 maybe.
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Old 29-05-2020, 14:47   #25
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

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Just wanted to see if that worked,,, I am still new around here. lol. @capt black thank-you again for the info, and @OrangeCrush thank you also. If you had to choose between this, and a sailrite straight stitch only which would it be. Fyi, I do everything myself. So, likely this thing will be put through the wringer, or a least taken to just past it's capabilities. I will be making a huge dodger for a cross 38, and repairing for now, possibly making sails in the future, adding reefs and fixing tacks, bolt ropes, leech lines, and so on. I don't like relying much on others for the doing part of things. But I love to ask questions, as Capt Black already knows. I believe you are correct parts might be tough to find, but if I can find a mini lathe and mill, I could just make them, also. I might just hold off and get a sailrite, this guy looks pretty robust. I believe it National Sewing Machine Co. "Designer" Model. Formerly Bugatti, circa 1952 maybe.
Good to hear you're handy in the machine shop mate
Tbh, I would only use a straight stitch for upholstery. For anything that needs to do work, like a bimini, I would use a double row of zig zags - it needs to be able to stretch with the fabric, which a straight stitch does not. I send the plans for the upholstery to my mother-in-law to do, it doesn't need to be that strong.

Edit - As you might know from my other posts I currently am between machines and hand sew everything.
Is it stronger? Yes
Is it a worthwhile skill to master? Absolutely
Is it so strong that it is worth the extra time? No, despite the fact I am fast at it. Although as I said above edging, bolt ropes, and other reinforcements are better done by hand imo.
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Old 29-05-2020, 15:01   #26
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

You will see straight stitched biminis with sagging panels after a few months, although poor design is also a factor. You need to be aware or the stretch that you can expect from your textile and account for it. That includes factors such as getting your weave lined up with each other and the work they have to do, sailmaking principles essentially. I call it fabric engineering, and look down a little on "sewing" tbh
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Old 29-05-2020, 15:23   #27
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

Anyway, sorry about spamming comments, but here's the bimini I recently finished. Eventually I want all flexible panels, but gotta make do for now.
Yea, the sailcover's not my work, new ones coming soon, have wrapped over the new tear in the pic since then.
The bimini will eventually fasten directly to the dodger, but I am waiting until I next take the dodger down for maintenance to do that.
Edges on the underside are reinforced with webbing. The battens are PVC tube with wood epoxied inside, originally the broken battens for the mainsail! Clearly not strong enough, I would prefer ash, but not sourceable here in such lengths. Made do with two stout bamboo canes lashed together for now, as from Practical Junk Rig book.
Hand sewing with an awl doesn't count - you're basically just doing a machine zig zag by hand then. From set up to finish, I bet I could beat an awl sewer in speed 100% of the time as well.
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Old 29-05-2020, 17:47   #28
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

@capt black are you using a sail-rite now? The work looks good by my eye. I have a hand sew kit, that I have used for all kind of stuff round the house for years now. My biggest problem is my fingers seem too long for the needle to work with the sailors palm.. Or maybe my fingers aren't flexible enough. When the palm is comfy on my hand, the needles are even with my bent all to hell fingers.. Not very comfy.. Other than that I like sewing by hand..
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Old 30-05-2020, 01:40   #29
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

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@capt black are you using a sail-rite now? The work looks good by my eye. I have a hand sew kit, that I have used for all kind of stuff round the house for years now. My biggest problem is my fingers seem too long for the needle to work with the sailors palm.. Or maybe my fingers aren't flexible enough. When the palm is comfy on my hand, the needles are even with my bent all to hell fingers.. Not very comfy.. Other than that I like sewing by hand..
Nope, am working with the waxed core from 10mm braid on braid, separated down its smallest strand. I file down the sides of a large sewing needle to a triangular section on the pointy half, then smooth off the corners a bit - yes, often shop bought sailmaking needles are too short and will not work comfortably with a sailor's palm. But it is easy to find an array of different needles at your local sewing shop, get a selection and see what works best.

If you are still having problems you probably need to make a custom sailor's palm for your hand. Sometimes the best solution is a pair of pliers, and is less likely to break the needle than brute force with a palm. For really heavy jobs on old sails you may want to consider a small nail and hammer to pre-make the holes. I have a board of plywood with a rubber sheet afixed as a working surface, which makes driving the needles through easier.

When shopping for needles to alter, try find one whose head is not too much bigger than the shaft. I do have shop-brought sailing making thread for jobs where the yarn is going to be exposed to significant chafe, but I rarely need it if things are designed well.

Beeswax is the best solution, though I have made do with soft surf board wax before. Buying waxed thread is a waste of time as there is never enough wax on it and you need to put more anyway.
If you start with a piece of rope that stretches from palm on one arm to elbow on the other, you will end up with a strand about the same height as yourself, which is about the maximum comfortable size to work with.
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Old 30-05-2020, 02:05   #30
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Re: Vintage Alternatives to Sailrite Sewing Machine

As with anything, the trick is to start slow and get it right, you will get faster in time. You don't need to mark every hole, but if you draw a line for the two rows of holes, the stitch will look pretty good if you make an effort to get a 45 degree stitch. Where accuracy on a particular stroke is important, it is better to be coming down through the layers and into your board rather than up - for example when you are starting a seam, with one stroke going through both layers of cloth, and the other coming up through one.
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