I am the type of shopper who will research
alternatives to the extreme. Often, finding what we need is complicated by the fact much of what we use is produced and marketed by niche companies specializing in marine hardware
systems and more. There are few alternate sources so the prices we pay for repair and replacement parts
is high. Consequently, we consider ourselves fortunate when something can be obtained in good condition used, or on that rare occasion from a company manufacturing so called "aftermarket" products. Fortunately there is significant growth in aftermarket sales of starters and alternators with applications in the marine environment
. I discovered this recently when I needed a replacement starter for my Yanmar
2YM diesel engine
Because I am outside the U.S. where the cost of repair and replacement parts
is exhorbitant, I began a web search hoping to find a reasonably priced starter. An OEM starter from the local Yanmar
dealer is around $600 USD!
There are many possible sources, but I was surprised to find a starter is available for $109 from spider Marine. 100 NEW Hitachi 12 Volt 11 tooth Starter: Starters & Starters
The only available shipping
option was via USPS and cost between $62 and $102 USD depending on how fast you want delivery
PROBLEM! USPS in this location delivers to airport customs
, and not as UPS and FEDEX does directly to customs
nearer to cruisers who had the item shipped, and manned by officials used to dealing with cruisers. Experience shows that items shipped via USPS to the airport
can be delayed for inordinately long periods of time.
So, I sent the following:
Inquiry: "...I am concerned about shipping
usps because unlike courier and UPS parcels come through the < > airport customs and can be delayed for quite some time. UPS and courier service
delivers directly to customs in < >. ..."Can you ship UPS/courier, and if so how much will it cost?"
Reply: "Yes, Just go through the checkout process and all available options can be seen."
My question was not sufficiently answered, but I assumed additional shipping options would appear (UPS/FEDEX) when placing my order.
Always attentive to the advice of others I took the next step.
I'd heard a local marine retailer could save cruisers shipping costs by bundling their items with the retailer's shipments required to replenish regularly stocked items. But, I learned this was not quite the case and I'd only benefit if I purchased a starter from them. Trouble is, the starter they sell would be an OEM starter costing $500 more than the starter sold by Spider Marine. I asked if they might consider buying
the starter from Spider Marine wholesale, resell to me and bundle in their next resupply shipment - possibly reducing my shipping costs and ensuring problem free delivery
through customs. If my total cost was a bit more than if I bought from Spider Marine it would be worth the extra expense avoiding probable delay at airport customs.
I was told they'd look into it, and if it doable would let me know.
I received a quote which contained the following cautionary statement:
"I attached a copy of your quote. Please bear in mind this is not a "Yanmar" starter...and is not coming through an authorized Yanmar parts dealer. It is manufactured for this company (Spider) as a knock-off. As such we can't take responsibility for its appropriateness. Hence you will have to sign the attached quote and acknowledge that you determined this part will work for you. No returns to us."
Annoyed by what I felt was an uneccesary swipe because I'd dare to buy anything but a "Yanmar" starter, this option was instantly abandoned.
Still, the suggestion the Spider Marine starter could be a "counterfiet" was cause for concern. There is a big difference between "aftermarket" and "knock offs, or counterfiet" items, the latter looking like an original but containing potentially dangerous flaws. I emailed Spider Marine:
Message to Spider Marine:
"In a recent conversation with a local Yanmar distributor your Yanmar starter S18290 was described as a "knock off" (aka counterfieted item) supplied to you from an outside source. Information on your site declares the item is manufactured by Spider Marine. If so, you should be in a position to defend against the Yanmar distributor's claim. Can I rest assured the item equals standards of quality, reliability
and performance of an original Hitachi manufactured starter? Also, design of the Yanmar 2YM makes removal
and replacement of this starter difficult. The width of a hose wall is all that made the difference between having to remove the heat exchanger
, riser and exhaust
to extricate the starter - or not, So it is imperitive dimensions of your starter are identical to an original Hitachi starter. I believe Hitachi could sell their starters for $109 but hold the prices artificially high by eliminating competition between their distributors. This is of course accomplished by limiting customer purchases territorially.
Please give the assurance I need regarding my concerns expressed above so I can order this starter knowing it is indeed manufactured by Spider Marine and suitable for use with my engine
Reply from Spider Marine:
"These items are considered aftermarket, but like everything we sell, they are built to meet or exceed all OEM standards. They will be the exact dimensions of the original Hitachi. We stand behind all of our products with a one year warranty. We hope you give us a chance, and we know you will be pleased with our products and service
Considering that Spider Marine allegedly makes "our products" to " the exact dimensions of the original Hitachi", the internal parts should be interchangeable, no? So, I sent this:
"Do you have a brush holder and solenoid that can be used to repair my damaged Hitachi? If so, will adding them to the shipment significantly increase my shipping cost for the starter?
It would be great if the damaged starter can be repaired and serve as a spare.
If you have these parts, how much will they cost?
I'll give the information you need to complete my order via separate emails as soon as I have received your reply."
"Sorry we only carry the complete unit".
This raised fresh doubts in my mind about Spider Marine's alleged role as a manufacturer of the products they sell.
Consequently, I sent the following message on June, 22.
I visited your site again today and learned your web crew has still not fixed the shipping methods.
"I am not exactly clear about Spider Marines role. Most links from an internet
search indicate Spider Marine is a "Retail & wholesale distributor of starters and alternators for marine, automotive, ....." Pages that display products sold by Spider Marine indicate they are manufactured by Spider Marine. Is starter S18290 manufactured by someone else for Spider Marine who sells the starter wholesale and retail, or is it manufactured by Spider Marine? If it is manufactured by Spider Marine it would be reasonable to expect you sell replacement parts. But you don't, so I assume it is not manufactured by Spider Marine. Who makes this starter? Spider Marine says the products they sell equal or exceed OEM products. What about this starter makes it equal to or better than a Hitachi starter? Materials used? Some design improvement? If I do not know who makes this starter I have no way of finding out the answers to these questions on my own.
I am asking these questions for no other reason than I am a careful consumer. I can spend $109 for a starter that will fail when I need it the most, or spend nearly four times as much for a starter that is less likely to fail when I need it the most - because it is in fact a better quality product. This is not to say a starter costing four times as much is not going to fail too, but typically cost reflects to some extent the cost of materials going into the product. How can I be sure the $109 starter does not have low quality materials used in its construction? If Spider Marine does not manufacture this starter what kind of control over materials used in this starter does it have? Do you have information about rates of failure for this starter?
Warranties and promises a company stands behind the products it sells is of little value to me. I will be thousands of miles distant from the sellers when something fails. I need a replacement quickly, and cannot be involved in sending a unit back to the manufacturer paying shipping costs that will probably exceed the original cost of the unit. This may help you to understand my concerns, and hope you can provide some useful answers."
I received no reply, and sent the following on June, 27:
"Having not received a reply from you I did some searching on the net and came accross your post copied and pasted from My starter went out [Archive] - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum
"So what is it now, 100% new Bosch or 100% Spider Marine?
Or 100% remanufactured by Spider Marine?
Hey I am < >, I am new to this forum. I work for Spider Marine Electric
Supply. I am posting
here to clarify because there seems to be some confusion about the products we are selling. First of all Spider Marine only sells NEW products. We do not sell anything remanufactured (not that there is anything wrong with reman units, in fact sometimes its the only option on many older applications). Our products are aftermarket, and not built by the original equipment
manufacturer (at least most of the time. We do carry some O.E. Leece Neville, Iskra, Bosch, Valeo, etc. it just depends on the particular application). However, we contract
all of the manufacture of our products, and EVERY product we sell is built brand new, and to specifications that meet, or beat, OEM design and technology. So in the title and body of our product listing we show who the "original" manufacturer was, but also show the current
manufacturer as SPIDER MARINE. We are not trying to fool anyone. We also feature a no-hassle 1 year warranty. So you can be safe and sure when buying a products from Spider Marine. We have faith that our products are of great quality, and that is why we offer such a robust warranty. If you have other questions please feel free to post them to this forum or vistit our site: www.spidermarine.com"
So, the simple answer to my question is: Starter 18290 is not manufactured by Spider Marine. It is manufactured under contract
between Spider Marine and an unnamed manufacturer. It is not accurate for your site to indicate Spider Marine manufactures anything. Why not indicate who actually makes the products S.M. sells?
I will take the rest of what you say above as a fair representation of what I can expect regarding quality and performance if I order this starter.
One remaining question. How much to ship two starters if they are in one box?"
Receiving no reply, my next message was on June, 28.
Message: "Just in case you did not receive my last email
How much is the cost for shipping two starters via UPS if packaged together? Do you expect the web crew will update your 'checkout' process in regard to shipping methods soon? Although I prefer using a secure checkout process to make purchases online, if there is no other alternative I'll email
the information from separate accounts in order to minimize the possibility anyone will ever have all the information at their disposal were they to ever hack into one of my accounts.
Whether I purchase
one or two depends upon the cost for shipping via UPS. I do not know how they charge. Package dimension, by weight or both."
Again, I received no reply. Realizing the only shipping option available to me without assistance from Spider Marine sales was USPS, I ordered a starter today, June 30, 2012 that will be going through airport customs - and may be delayed as some people have warned.
I am not going to speculate as to why Spider Marine sales has not replied to my most recent emails. Nor have I enough information to suggest this is indicative of the kind of assistance and customer service one can generally expect. You be the judge. Some additional information gleaned from the net you may want to consider follows. I'll update my post order experience as it unfolds.
Spider Marine Electric
Supply, Inc. www.spidermarine.com/South
Florida's Number 1 Distributor for marine, automotive, industrial, lawn and garden, recreational, and power sport electrical
I need to replace my alternator
on my Yanmar 4JH2E. Has anyone purchased from Spider Marine? They seem to have very good prices. Are they too good to be true? Alternators from Spider Marine? - SailNet Community
Review #: 253504 Posted by: Msikoski From: Posted On: 2011-08-05 Total hits: 536 Spider Marine does not honor return policy.
Home » Equipment
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User Submitted Review
SPIDER MARINE DOES NOT HONOR RETURN POLICY. Spider Marine Complaint by Msikoski
Spider marine does not honor its STRICT return policy. If you get the wrong part Tough S**t your stuck with it and you pay shipping to get it returned to you. I would highly recomend you shop elsewhere. there is a reason prices are to good to be true. You will get screwed,. I orderd a starter solinoid, it was incorrect|. I called and was told it only fits our starters?. I said fine send me a new starter:. Starter was wrong|. I sent both back:. Was told there was fingerprints on starter and they would not take it back!. got screwed out of 2 shiiping costs and price
of starter;. Had to pay for the idiots to send me back a starter I cant use.
1. Written by Big Boat on March 23, 2012 From -, -, US You can get most parts thru NAPA Go there.. Report
2. Written by PISSED on January 3, 2012 From Livingston, New Jersey
, US BBB ??? Report
3. Written by msikoski on November 23, 2011 From Albany, New York
, US Did I mention they are theives. Report
4. Written by Mike Sikoski on October 21, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey
, US When I got the starter back there was NOTHING dirty on it. NO fingerprints. Report
5. Written by Big boat on September 19, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US They suk. fck them... Report
6. Written by TNX on August 25, 2011 From Seattle
, US thanks for input Report
7. Written by Me too. on August 9, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US I got screwed too..
8. Written by msikoski on August 5, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US Check them out in BBB.
OEM Starters- check this out - Seadoo Forums
"For all of you in need of starters you might want to check this out. I had to buy a new starter for my 98 Sportster 1800. The port engine starter was trashed and it was cheaper to buy New vs having the OEM rebuilt (armature was trashed). The new OEM came in today. Come to find out its a DENSO marine starter denso PN# 228000-4553. If I had known this I could have bought the same starter for a whole lot less money
from the link I'm posting
below.. You guys might want to check these guys out, its not China
made. Its a true DENSO starter.. I won't pay for another OEM when all their doing is putting another DENSO in the box.."
100 New Nippondenso 12 Volt 9 Tooth Starter: Starters & Starters
Also, see: Damage to Alternator ?
, post #23