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Old 30-06-2012, 15:11   #1
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Spider Marine

I am the type of shopper who will research my buying alternatives to the extreme. Often, finding what we need is complicated by the fact much of what we use is produced and marketed by niche companies specializing in marine hardware, electronics, propulsion systems and more. There are few alternate sources so the prices we pay for repair and replacement parts is high. Consequently, we consider ourselves fortunate when something can be obtained in good condition used, or on that rare occasion from a company manufacturing so called "aftermarket" products. Fortunately there is significant growth in aftermarket sales of starters and alternators with applications in the marine environment. I discovered this recently when I needed a replacement starter for my Yanmar 2YM diesel engine.

Because I am outside the U.S. where the cost of repair and replacement parts is exhorbitant, I began a web search hoping to find a reasonably priced starter. An OEM starter from the local Yanmar dealer is around $600 USD!

There are many possible sources, but I was surprised to find a starter is available for $109 from spider Marine. 100 NEW Hitachi 12 Volt 11 tooth Starter: Starters &amp Starters

The only available shipping option was via USPS and cost between $62 and $102 USD depending on how fast you want delivery.

PROBLEM! USPS in this location delivers to airport customs, and not as UPS and FEDEX does directly to customs nearer to cruisers who had the item shipped, and manned by officials used to dealing with cruisers. Experience shows that items shipped via USPS to the airport can be delayed for inordinately long periods of time.

So, I sent the following:

Inquiry: "...I am concerned about shipping usps because unlike courier and UPS parcels come through the < > airport customs and can be delayed for quite some time. UPS and courier service delivers directly to customs in < >. ..."Can you ship UPS/courier, and if so how much will it cost?"

Reply: "Yes, Just go through the checkout process and all available options can be seen."

My question was not sufficiently answered, but I assumed additional shipping options would appear (UPS/FEDEX) when placing my order.

Always attentive to the advice of others I took the next step.

I'd heard a local marine retailer could save cruisers shipping costs by bundling their items with the retailer's shipments required to replenish regularly stocked items. But, I learned this was not quite the case and I'd only benefit if I purchased a starter from them. Trouble is, the starter they sell would be an OEM starter costing $500 more than the starter sold by Spider Marine. I asked if they might consider buying the starter from Spider Marine wholesale, resell to me and bundle in their next resupply shipment - possibly reducing my shipping costs and ensuring problem free delivery through customs. If my total cost was a bit more than if I bought from Spider Marine it would be worth the extra expense avoiding probable delay at airport customs.

I was told they'd look into it, and if it doable would let me know.

I received a quote which contained the following cautionary statement:

"I attached a copy of your quote. Please bear in mind this is not a "Yanmar" starter...and is not coming through an authorized Yanmar parts dealer. It is manufactured for this company (Spider) as a knock-off. As such we can't take responsibility for its appropriateness. Hence you will have to sign the attached quote and acknowledge that you determined this part will work for you. No returns to us."

Annoyed by what I felt was an uneccesary swipe because I'd dare to buy anything but a "Yanmar" starter, this option was instantly abandoned.

Still, the suggestion the Spider Marine starter could be a "counterfiet" was cause for concern. There is a big difference between "aftermarket" and "knock offs, or counterfiet" items, the latter looking like an original but containing potentially dangerous flaws. I emailed Spider Marine:

Message to Spider Marine:

"In a recent conversation with a local Yanmar distributor your Yanmar starter S18290 was described as a "knock off" (aka counterfieted item) supplied to you from an outside source. Information on your site declares the item is manufactured by Spider Marine. If so, you should be in a position to defend against the Yanmar distributor's claim. Can I rest assured the item equals standards of quality, reliability and performance of an original Hitachi manufactured starter? Also, design of the Yanmar 2YM makes removal and replacement of this starter difficult. The width of a hose wall is all that made the difference between having to remove the heat exchanger, riser and exhaust to extricate the starter - or not, So it is imperitive dimensions of your starter are identical to an original Hitachi starter. I believe Hitachi could sell their starters for $109 but hold the prices artificially high by eliminating competition between their distributors. This is of course accomplished by limiting customer purchases territorially.
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Please give the assurance I need regarding my concerns expressed above so I can order this starter knowing it is indeed manufactured by Spider Marine and suitable for use with my engine."

Reply from Spider Marine:

"These items are considered aftermarket, but like everything we sell, they are built to meet or exceed all OEM standards. They will be the exact dimensions of the original Hitachi. We stand behind all of our products with a one year warranty. We hope you give us a chance, and we know you will be pleased with our products and service."

Considering that Spider Marine allegedly makes "our products" to " the exact dimensions of the original Hitachi", the internal parts should be interchangeable, no? So, I sent this:

"Do you have a brush holder and solenoid that can be used to repair my damaged Hitachi? If so, will adding them to the shipment significantly increase my shipping cost for the starter?

It would be great if the damaged starter can be repaired and serve as a spare.

If you have these parts, how much will they cost?

I'll give the information you need to complete my order via separate emails as soon as I have received your reply."

Reply:

"Sorry we only carry the complete unit".

This raised fresh doubts in my mind about Spider Marine's alleged role as a manufacturer of the products they sell.

Consequently, I sent the following message on June, 22.

I visited your site again today and learned your web crew has still not fixed the shipping methods.

"I am not exactly clear about Spider Marines role. Most links from an internet search indicate Spider Marine is a "Retail & wholesale distributor of starters and alternators for marine, automotive, ....." Pages that display products sold by Spider Marine indicate they are manufactured by Spider Marine. Is starter S18290 manufactured by someone else for Spider Marine who sells the starter wholesale and retail, or is it manufactured by Spider Marine? If it is manufactured by Spider Marine it would be reasonable to expect you sell replacement parts. But you don't, so I assume it is not manufactured by Spider Marine. Who makes this starter? Spider Marine says the products they sell equal or exceed OEM products. What about this starter makes it equal to or better than a Hitachi starter? Materials used? Some design improvement? If I do not know who makes this starter I have no way of finding out the answers to these questions on my own.

I am asking these questions for no other reason than I am a careful consumer. I can spend $109 for a starter that will fail when I need it the most, or spend nearly four times as much for a starter that is less likely to fail when I need it the most - because it is in fact a better quality product. This is not to say a starter costing four times as much is not going to fail too, but typically cost reflects to some extent the cost of materials going into the product. How can I be sure the $109 starter does not have low quality materials used in its construction? If Spider Marine does not manufacture this starter what kind of control over materials used in this starter does it have? Do you have information about rates of failure for this starter?

Warranties and promises a company stands behind the products it sells is of little value to me. I will be thousands of miles distant from the sellers when something fails. I need a replacement quickly, and cannot be involved in sending a unit back to the manufacturer paying shipping costs that will probably exceed the original cost of the unit. This may help you to understand my concerns, and hope you can provide some useful answers."

I received no reply, and sent the following on June, 27:

"Having not received a reply from you I did some searching on the net and came accross your post copied and pasted from My starter went out [Archive] - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum

"So what is it now, 100% new Bosch or 100% Spider Marine?

Or 100% remanufactured by Spider Marine?

Hey I am < >, I am new to this forum. I work for Spider Marine Electric Supply. I am posting here to clarify because there seems to be some confusion about the products we are selling. First of all Spider Marine only sells NEW products. We do not sell anything remanufactured (not that there is anything wrong with reman units, in fact sometimes its the only option on many older applications). Our products are aftermarket, and not built by the original equipment manufacturer (at least most of the time. We do carry some O.E. Leece Neville, Iskra, Bosch, Valeo, etc. it just depends on the particular application). However, we contract all of the manufacture of our products, and EVERY product we sell is built brand new, and to specifications that meet, or beat, OEM design and technology. So in the title and body of our product listing we show who the "original" manufacturer was, but also show the current manufacturer as SPIDER MARINE. We are not trying to fool anyone. We also feature a no-hassle 1 year warranty. So you can be safe and sure when buying a products from Spider Marine. We have faith that our products are of great quality, and that is why we offer such a robust warranty. If you have other questions please feel free to post them to this forum or vistit our site: www.spidermarine.com"

So, the simple answer to my question is: Starter 18290 is not manufactured by Spider Marine. It is manufactured under contract between Spider Marine and an unnamed manufacturer. It is not accurate for your site to indicate Spider Marine manufactures anything. Why not indicate who actually makes the products S.M. sells?

I will take the rest of what you say above as a fair representation of what I can expect regarding quality and performance if I order this starter.

One remaining question. How much to ship two starters if they are in one box?"

Receiving no reply, my next message was on June, 28.


Message: "Just in case you did not receive my last email.

How much is the cost for shipping two starters via UPS if packaged together? Do you expect the web crew will update your 'checkout' process in regard to shipping methods soon? Although I prefer using a secure checkout process to make purchases online, if there is no other alternative I'll email the information from separate accounts in order to minimize the possibility anyone will ever have all the information at their disposal were they to ever hack into one of my accounts.

Whether I purchase one or two depends upon the cost for shipping via UPS. I do not know how they charge. Package dimension, by weight or both."

Again, I received no reply. Realizing the only shipping option available to me without assistance from Spider Marine sales was USPS, I ordered a starter today, June 30, 2012 that will be going through airport customs - and may be delayed as some people have warned.

I am not going to speculate as to why Spider Marine sales has not replied to my most recent emails. Nor have I enough information to suggest this is indicative of the kind of assistance and customer service one can generally expect. You be the judge. Some additional information gleaned from the net you may want to consider follows. I'll update my post order experience as it unfolds.

Spider Marine Electric Supply, Inc. www.spidermarine.com/South Florida's Number 1 Distributor for marine, automotive, industrial, lawn and garden, recreational, and power sport electrical parts.

I need to replace my alternator on my Yanmar 4JH2E. Has anyone purchased from Spider Marine? They seem to have very good prices. Are they too good to be true? Alternators from Spider Marine? - SailNet Community

Review #: 253504 Posted by: Msikoski From: Posted On: 2011-08-05 Total hits: 536 Spider Marine does not honor return policy.

Home Equipment Spider Marine does not honor return policy.

User Submitted Review

SPIDER MARINE DOES NOT HONOR RETURN POLICY. Spider Marine Complaint by Msikoski

Spider marine does not honor its STRICT return policy. If you get the wrong part Tough S**t your stuck with it and you pay shipping to get it returned to you. I would highly recomend you shop elsewhere. there is a reason prices are to good to be true. You will get screwed,. I orderd a starter solinoid, it was incorrect|. I called and was told it only fits our starters?. I said fine send me a new starter:. Starter was wrong|. I sent both back:. Was told there was fingerprints on starter and they would not take it back!. got screwed out of 2 shiiping costs and price of starter;. Had to pay for the idiots to send me back a starter I cant use.

Comments (8)

1. Written by Big Boat on March 23, 2012 From -, -, US You can get most parts thru NAPA Go there.. Report

2. Written by PISSED on January 3, 2012 From Livingston, New Jersey, US BBB ??? Report

3. Written by msikoski on November 23, 2011 From Albany, New York, US Did I mention they are theives. Report

4. Written by Mike Sikoski on October 21, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US When I got the starter back there was NOTHING dirty on it. NO fingerprints. Report

5. Written by Big boat on September 19, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US They suk. fck them... Report

6. Written by TNX on August 25, 2011 From Seattle, Washington, US thanks for input Report

7. Written by Me too. on August 9, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US I got screwed too..

8. Written by msikoski on August 5, 2011 From Livingston, New Jersey, US Check them out in BBB.

OEM Starters- check this out - Seadoo Forums

"For all of you in need of starters you might want to check this out. I had to buy a new starter for my 98 Sportster 1800. The port engine starter was trashed and it was cheaper to buy New vs having the OEM rebuilt (armature was trashed). The new OEM came in today. Come to find out its a DENSO marine starter denso PN# 228000-4553. If I had known this I could have bought the same starter for a whole lot less money from the link I'm posting below.. You guys might want to check these guys out, its not China made. Its a true DENSO starter.. I won't pay for another OEM when all their doing is putting another DENSO in the box.."

100 New Nippondenso 12 Volt 9 Tooth Starter: Starters &amp Starters

Also, see: Damage to Alternator ? , post #23
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:07   #2
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Re: Spider Marine

Armido, I don't see what the problem is, you have a choice either pay $600 for the genuine product locally or take a risk on an OEM product at $109 plus a whole heap of hassle with delivery. You have a choice, if you don't think Spider Marine are able to supply a service that fits your needs then don't buy from them.

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Old 02-07-2012, 08:52   #3
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Re: Spider Marine

Pete,

You may not have noticed but the topic of this thread concerns Spider Marine. Nothing more, nothing less. You may want to start a thread of your own reviewing the ins and outs of ordering products from sellers on the internet as opposed to buying a "genuine", OEM item. I'd certainly enjoy sparring with you there, but not here.

Thanks,
armido
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:28   #4
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Re: Spider Marine

Oh my god... I can't believe I read through that entire post.

Okay, If this help you in any way, I bought a starter and alternator from spider marine for my universal diesel. Both units were direct fit replacements that work great. OEM, Knock off.. Who cares? They were cheap and they work.

Yes, the company doesn't do returns if you order the wrong part, so... Make sure to not order the wrong part.

I wish I could offer some constructive advice regarding your the shipping concerns, but I used the cheapest option available.

There comes a time when one has to make a choice and take the plunge.

Again.... Just make sure you order the right part.

Cheers and happy sailing!!!
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:04   #5
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Re: Spider Marine

Research to the extreme is right! If you paid yourself a fair hourly wage for all the time you put in to research, where would this transaction stand then? Doesn't make sense to me, unless you just enjoy doing this. However, I appreciate buyers like you, they can help keep sellers honest.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:09   #6
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Re: Spider Marine

Sailing with Soul,

When you made your purchase from Spider Marine were you State side? I imagine most buyers in the U.S. receive their orders with a minimum of hassle via USPS. Since I have not gone through the Spider Marine check out process giving my location as in the U.S., I do not know if FEDEX and UPS are offered, while those outside the U.S. don't see these options.

Any company wanting to receive orders from outside the U.S. would it seems, offer UPS and or FEDEX as options. Where Spider Marine is concerned, my only complaint is a lack of follow through helping me to receive my starter via UPS. They may not like potential buyers asking probing questions about representations made regarding who manufactures the products they sell, and they don't have to answer. But, it makes good business sense to assist every potential buyer receive what they need. If that includes shipping via UPS when USPS is the only option offered during check out, then so be it. Help the customer receive the product via a shipping method they prefer and side step answering questions they'd rather not address.

Still, they should be alert to the possibility customers will be reluctant to buy from them regardless of other claims about levels of service, quality of their products and more - if a misrepresentation of fact about who manufactures one or more products exists on their site.

armido
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:22   #7
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Re: Spider Marine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Armido, I don't see what the problem is, you have a choice either pay $600 for the genuine product locally or take a risk on an OEM product at $109 plus a whole heap of hassle with delivery. You have a choice, if you don't think Spider Marine are able to supply a service that fits your needs then don't buy from them.

Pete
Ditto
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:33   #8
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Re: Spider Marine

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Originally Posted by armido View Post
Sailing with Soul,

When you made your purchase from Spider Marine were you State side? I imagine most buyers in the U.S. receive their orders with a minimum of hassle via USPS. Since I have not gone through the Spider Marine check out process giving my location as in the U.S., I do not know if FEDEX and UPS are offered, while those outside the U.S. don't see these options.

armido
armidio, I was/am stateside. Which is why I really couldn't offer any fair advice on the shipping. I do remember seeing various shipping options during checkout, but I did not pay them much notice. Their website should give you those same options irrespective of where you are ordering from, but there may be differences dependent upon location/IP address. I would go through the checkout process. If you don't see the shipping option you want, just cancel the checkout.

Cheers
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:41   #9
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Re: Spider Marine

Quote:
Originally Posted by armido View Post
Pete, You may not have noticed but the topic of this thread concerns Spider Marine. Nothing more, nothing less. You may want to start a thread of your own reviewing the ins and outs of ordering products from sellers on the internet as opposed to buying a "genuine", OEM item. I'd certainly enjoy sparring with you there, but not here. Thanks, armido
I was talking about your option of either a genuine starter or an OEM one at a 1/5th of the price but with a load of hassle and a risk if you ordered the wrong one. I even used the name of the company you were liaising with.

However, if to want to drift this fred into an argument you need to read the forum rules first because we have a "be nice" ethos here on CF.

There is a reason the likes of Volvo and Yanmar are expensive, it's because they can supply thousands of parts for dozens of engines anywhere in the world in a couple of days. That costs, but if its the wrong item you can normally correct the mistake, again that costs.

As I said, you have a choice, at least it isn't a Hobsons Choice.

Pete
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:42   #10
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Re: Spider Marine

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Sailing with Soul,

Any company wanting to receive orders from outside the U.S. would it seems, offer UPS and or FEDEX as options. Where Spider Marine is concerned, my only complaint is a lack of follow through helping me to receive my starter via UPS. They may not like potential buyers asking probing questions about representations made regarding who manufactures the products they sell, and they don't have to answer. But, it makes good business sense to assist every potential buyer receive what they need. If that includes shipping via UPS when USPS is the only option offered during check out, then so be it. Help the customer receive the product via a shipping method they prefer and side step answering questions they'd rather not address.

armido
Given the prices, their margin is probably less than most. They might not really want to go to the extra effort of going outside of the USA. A business model I can certainly understand. Hence they could not want to waist $$/time dealing with international orders.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:14   #11
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Re: Spider Marine

Pete,

As I said, this post is a discussion of Spider Marine, nothing more nothing less. I did not begin this thread in order to invite posts from people criticizing my choice to buy an aftermarket rather than an so-called "genuine", OEM part. Being nice does not mean enduring demeaning or critical personal slights by people who would make a different choice of how to buy their goods. Just because you use "Spider marine" in your post does not change the basic message - which is off topic.

From the rules:

"Stay on topic by keeping discussions relevant and on track."

armido
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:16   #12
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Re: Spider Marine

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Given the prices, their margin is probably less than most. They might not really want to go to the extra effort of going outside of the USA. A business model I can certainly understand. Hence they could not want to waist $$/time dealing with international orders.

Not to mention UPS prices can be insane. Not knowing where the OP is or even the weight of a starter, out of curiosity I checked on shipping an 8"x8"x15" 15# package from the east coast in the states to Australia. $308.46.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:17   #13
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Re: Spider Marine

So, which one are you going to order?

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Old 02-07-2012, 11:26   #14
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Re: Spider Marine

ohdrinkboy,

Spider Marine evidently wants orders from outside the U.S., otherwise they would not offer shipping via USPS to international destinations. My communications via email with their sales rep. suggests he was not aware the only shipping option offered during check out was USPS, and said he'd ask his web crew to add UPS. He also said they do not normally use FEDEX. After about two weeks however, the change still had not been made. I sent the following message to the company who developed and maintains Spider Marine's web site. I received no reply.

"Your company maintains a web site for Spider Marine Spider Marine Electric Supply, Inc. . It has been at least two weeks since <> who is an employee in their sales department said he'd ask his web crew to update available shipping methods in their checkout process. But, UPS is still missing as an option. I am in <> (Carribean) and do not want to ship via USPS. Has he asked for this to be done? I need a replacement starter asap and hope you can fix this immediately. Thanks!"

armido
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:37   #15
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Re: Spider Marine

Why don't you have them ship usps to a friend in the US, and then have that person ship to you FedEx?
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