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Old 04-06-2010, 19:36   #16
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Forgive me for being late to the conversation, but isn't that a pump from a Yanmar? Don't they: 1) already use an O-ring seal and 2) attach with the plate facing the engine making it hard (really, really, really hard) to see or replace the impeller with them mounted on the engine? Indeed, my experience with these pumps is that the quickest and best way to change the impeller is to remove the pump from the engine which requires removing two bolts and two hoses. Since you need tools out to do that anyway and since it takes just a few seconds to remove the plate using the screw driver which is already in your hand once you have the pump off the motor, what's the point of having speed nuts? Just wondering...

Tom
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Old 04-06-2010, 20:06   #17
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In defence, your Honor, I have used Speed Seals on a couple of Ford-Lehmans.

On Yanmars it is easier to remove the pump to change the impeller

As far as the slots, they probably discontinued this idea as many were probably overtightend......Anybody who has put a wrench on Volvo Pump knows the pain of shearing off those tiny machine screws.

Improper tightening is not grounds for condemning a product, in my opinion.

I have submittited ideas to companies with my opinion of how they might improve their product....I have always gotten a positive response.

BTW don't fire up your flamethrowers.....
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:13   #18
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Speed Seal

Tom

I would suggest that why they removed the slot is irrelavent. The simple fact is they advertised the cover with a slot, and any buyer should be able to expect to get what was advertised. That is my "ruling".

The gentleman suggesting pump removal has a good point!
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:58   #19
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Tom

I would suggest that why they removed the slot is irrelavent. The simple fact is they advertised the cover with a slot, and any buyer should be able to expect to get what was advertised. That is my "ruling".

The gentleman suggesting pump removal has a good point!
Am I the "Tom" you're addressing? (I should probably use a more unique handle).

Anyway, you'll get no argument from me one way or the other on the slots. I can understand why a company might be unhappy to have folks tearing the threads out of $300 pump bodies (assuming that's why the slots were removed) and products do get improved over time but advertising should always show the product correctly. And, customer service should have explained their reasoning to you and given you satisfactory options.

But, I was addressing a more fundamental issue. The photo originally posted by Gord is of a Yanmar (Johnson) belt driven water pump. With respect for both Gord and Practical Sailor anyone who has actually serviced one of these pumps should know that even if it worked perfectly a speed seal would be of marginal use on them. First, these pumps already use O-ring seals on the covers and IME they are easy to fit and never fail (the lip seals fail, the bearings fail, the covers don't). Second, because the pump is installed with the cover facing the engine there is no good way to service this pump on the motor so quick tool free impeller changes are out of the question. AFIK, the advantages of the speed seal are supposed to be the O-ring replacing fiddly paper or cork gaskets and the ability to inspect or change the impeller w/o tools. Yet, the most popular marine diesels already use O-ring sealed backing plates and on them at best the expensive knurled hand nuts save the time it takes to remove two machine screws in a five minute operation... I understand that on many engines the sea water pump is installed so that the back of the pump is accessible. On these engines a Speed Seal might make some sense. But photos suggesting they would be useful on Yanmar's belt driven sea water pumps strike me as misleading. Or m I missing something?

Tom
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Old 05-06-2010, 14:49   #20
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I have been using speed seals on two boats for over 20yrs. The advantage on mine is no gaskets (westerbeke then a perkins) and no tools. It's worth it to me to not have to hold and/or align a screwdriver in a seaway. Does not happen often but once is enough.
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Old 05-06-2010, 15:05   #21
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I have a Perkins. The first time I changed out the impeller, I decided that the sloted screws had to go. Hex heads have worked great since then. I don't get why they were sloted screws in the first place. And my hex heads have made anything else a mute point for me. The O-Ring thing sounds good, but not justifiable to me. It's just too simple now.
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Old 05-06-2010, 15:16   #22
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FWIW

My Westerbeke 30 also "requires" removal of the pump to change the cover. I find it very difficult to re-tension the pump afterwards, too. I was just about to order a Speedseal, now I am not so sure....
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Old 05-06-2010, 16:02   #23
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I have often looked at those and thought they would be a good idea. I just finished replacing an impeller on a Johnson pump that is used on my Panda genset. Six slotted screws with not enough room to work in. I use a small ratchet type handle with an inserted flat blade screwdriver bit in it. bought this tool especially for the job.While working in that tight space I couldn't help but dream about this system. Now I am not sure.
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Old 05-06-2010, 16:12   #24
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Awww, you guys, quit your belly achin' about changing impellers. A little time, a few elementary tools, a little rum, a few curses and you'll do it fine every time.

OK, I'll admit to once having to use an impact screwdriver to remove the damned little cover screws, and dropping one into an oily bilge. But, hey, that almost never happens :-)

Keep in mind that poor chap I know of on a charter catamaran in the BVI. After a repowering job, the new larger engine just fit but the cover on the raw water pump wound up less than an inch from a non-removable watertight bulkhead. No way to get the cover off or to get the pump off the engine in that position, either.

To change an impeller, he had to uncouple the shaft, loosen the motor mounts, slide the engine away from the bulkhead, remove and replace the impeller and, of course, put everything back. Including a re-alignment of the engine coupling/shaft. Took a professional mechanic the better part of the day to do all this :-) True story.

Bill
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Old 05-06-2010, 18:27   #25
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Are the screws so unique one can't get spares in a regular shop?
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Old 05-06-2010, 18:30   #26
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fitting SS allenhead screws and grinding down an allen key to the required length if accessability is a problem and coating with lanocote or sheep grease as we call it will preclude any problems. As long as the screws are done up evenly they don't need to be over tightened.
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Old 05-06-2010, 19:15   #27
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Speed Seal

Tom,

I thought your idea about removing the pump might have merit, and I plan to give it a try on my engine. My other response was to "Chief Engineer". To someone else's question, the Speedseal screws are unique in the they are large and knurled. I you can't get your hand or something else around them it would be nice to have the slot option to remove them. As noted above, I offered to slot the screws myself if Speedseal would send me a set of four and they refused. I will likely slot the current screws next time I change the impeller. Some yanmar engines have the pump facing forward which makes changing the impeller a piece of cake.

Bob
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Old 05-06-2010, 20:09   #28
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So are you telling us you wanted the scres for free?

http://www.speedseal.com/SpeedsealLi...eusaprices.htm
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Old 05-06-2010, 20:12   #29
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You could try this.... http://www.mcmaster.com/#thumb-screws/=7eo410
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Old 05-06-2010, 20:57   #30
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I've owned sailboats since 1987.

Sailed all over Puget Sound, the San Juans, Canadian Gulf Islands, Barkley Sound, down the coast to Mexico, all up and down the West coast of Mexico following the sun, 15,000 miles in
four years. Sold that boat, bought the Dragonfly. Put ten years on this boat, including about 600 engine hours.

Maybe I just depend too much on solar panels and wind, but in all that sailing, I haven't EVER had to replace a raw water pump impeller. Not even ONE.

I check them from time to time and they're fine.

How weird is THAT !?!?!?!!?
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