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Old 20-11-2011, 09:45   #46
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Islandplanet...What are your thoughts on a battenless main or a loose footed one for that matter?
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Old 21-11-2011, 22:23   #47
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Capn Morgan,

Sorry but I've got it as a PDF and the computer that had the original copy in Word died. So I can't just paste it in. I'll attach a copy to a PM or if I can't do that I'll send you my regular email address.

Clockwork.
It doesn't matter where a sail is built. If the base cloth is poor quality or seconds, the result is an inferior sail. Everyone is building sails overseas. Not everyone is using the same materials though. I know Rolly and his history quite well. He's had an amazing racing career, probably one of very few to never retire from a race due to gear failure. And heck, he even built his own boats. How many pros these days can say that? None of that makes sails magical though.
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Old 21-11-2011, 22:38   #48
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Islandplanet...What are your thoughts on a battenless main or a loose footed one for that matter?
Battenless mains made some sense when I was a youngster and the wooden battens would frequently break. I've actually got some wood battens laying around in one of our lockers on our old ketch.

Today our construction techniques, design, and hardware have eliminated any possible justification for a battenless main in my opinion. You really lose performance, particularly upwind. Unless the boat was designed with a battenless sail to begin with, (IE: an Amel Super Maramu with all furling rig), I would not go from a battened sail to battenless. I've got customers putting tens of thousands of miles on our sails and I've yet to hear any complaints related to battens. We've gone to encapsulating some of our battens in a plastic so in the unlikely event of a breakage, the shards would not damage the sail. And for those who want the best batten, there's Robichaud. That's what you'll find on our boat.

People ask about loose footed mains frequently. The real question that should be asked is why do we have attached foot mains? The story behind that goes way back to early racing rules that required the foot of the main to be attached. The reason for the rule as I understand it was to prevent people from gaining sail area with foot roach.

I prefer a loose footed main for better control of the lower third of the sail and ease of sail installation and removal.

Potential drawbacks of a loose foot main included:
  • Inability to use the main effectively to catch water
  • Some people feel it's a bit messy when reefed
  • Tradition or just not used to idea

There's nothing wrong with staying with an attached foot. Most of us don't do such a stellar job of trim that it really makes a huge difference. If you prefer the attached foot, that's what I'd go with. The main thing is recognizing that there's few drawbacks to loose footed mains. The "main" thing is to get out and go sailing.
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Old 21-11-2011, 22:41   #49
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

I just talked with a friend who used to work at the Neil Pride loft and he said that seconds in sailcloth were easy to spot. His view was that misses and tight yarns would be apparent on a sail made with seconds, and that I shouldn't worry about my new sails. Even I would have no problem seeing issues if RT had used seconds in his view. As a former sailmaker, he would buy them. He has no interest in leading me astray. I may email Rolly Tasker and ask, but I still feel like some of the criticism in this thread isn't warranted.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:35   #50
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We have a new main, 2x spinakers and a big screecher all made there and thy all work great on our 44 ft crusing cat.
Got the main this year and its great quality.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:02   #51
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Good to hear from someone who has actually used them rather than just speculation, how was the pricing vs local lofts? im assuming you got local quotes. How was the customer service, can you talk to someone on the phone? I will be looking for a new main soon and will be wanting a few specific details so it will be important to have a knowlegable person to deal with.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:35   #52
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Engele,

It's my contention that seconds should not be used without disclosing the fact to the customer. Sailcloth can be rated second quality for a variety of reasons. Making widespread use of seconds leads to problems with sails. In fact, there was a clear example stated earlier in the thread. And let's be realistic. Aside from evaluating finish details and basic construction, most recreational sailors don't have the knowledge to evaluate a sail the same way a sailmaker does.

I realize some people will always go with whatever is cheapest and that's fine. Just don't deceive yourself you're getting a sail that's equivalent to what you would get from a conscientious and honest sailmaker who not only works hard to make sure you're getting the best possible sail for the money but will stand behind his or her work.

And be a smart consumer. Don't ever wire money for goods purchased over the internet. Credit cards or Paypal protect the consumer by providing some recourse in the event goods aren't delivered or fail to meet expectation. If a sailmaker or any merchant insists on being paid by wire transfer, that alone should be a red flag.
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Old 01-12-2011, 13:53   #53
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Local prices were all around the $11,000 to $12,000 price point.
Delivered to Australia the new main was $6,500 with my batten fittings on it that i sent over.
Well worth the effort.
After reading all of the comments do you think they ould be the biggest loft in the world if they used seconds and produced crap.
My local expert sailmaker cound not even get a boom bag sail cover right in 3 go's.
Mine is a big heavy cat so the sails do get a workout and they are all great!
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Old 01-12-2011, 13:54   #54
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Sorry you can always get a reply email and phone if you like.
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Old 01-12-2011, 13:55   #55
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3rd try, paid by credit card too with no problems or objections from the factory.so that recourse is there as well.same lead time as all the local suppliers too.
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Old 01-12-2011, 19:11   #56
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Do we know for sure that they use factory seconds fabric or is that just a rumor being perpetuated? Where did that rumor start? My son had a new racing headsail made by a local loft that didnt fit at all, but they did make good on it, kinda had to since they measured for it. Ive seen some real crap from well known US lofts and some nice stuff from small lofts. I would guess that most of the cost savings from the Asian lofts comes from cheaper labor costs.
Steve.
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Old 01-12-2011, 20:04   #57
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

Dirkdig,
They are not the biggest loft in the world. I hope the sail works out for you. Poke your head in the loft if you make it to Phuket and take a tour. If you can, have a look on the inside of the tubes on which the cloth comes on and see if you notice some marked "second".

Steve,
I've been to the loft in Phuket and seen that they use seconds. I've also seen some sails that didn't last as long as they should. If you look back in previous posts I explained the markings on the tubes. I'm not making this stuff up as I've got better things to do with my time. If you have a look at the recent Practical Sailor survey of sailmakers you will find that your observations of smaller independent lofts providing a high level of satisfaction are shared by many others. The playing field has been leveled. Sailmakers all have access to the same design software and manufacturing resources. Those who have a good business model can supply a great sail for less than you would expect.
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Old 01-12-2011, 20:41   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandplanet
Dirkdig,
They are not the biggest loft in the world. I hope the sail works out for you. Poke your head in the loft if you make it to Phuket and take a tour. If you can, have a look on the inside of the tubes on which the cloth comes on and see if you notice some marked "second".

.
Here is a virtual peek at the Rolly Tasker loft. I was there in the last month. You can see the condition of my brother's main sail - yikes... We did poke around at the cloth tubes, spent time in the chandlery and spent time with Mike and a sail designer. Like all things sailing the more you know, or at tleaset the more smart questions you have, the better the outcome. Mike asked a lot of pertinent questions about the sail and in a few days we'll know what we got and I will let the board know. Brother eventually ordered a gaff main, jib and will order a new heavy staysail.

We talked a bit about the cloth and there was no discussion of "seconds" - there was a discussion (I posted this earlier) about my boat and that Tasker had a bunch of sails that were ordered, not paid for and not shipped, that they are offering to recut and significantly reduced prices. Not a bad deal to get this offer if one is on a budget.

I did not get any sense that there was anything sneaky or nefarious going on. Tasker builds a ton of sails. If they were ripping people off the community would be pretty aware of it.

My only nit was that 2 years ago I tried to get a quote from them for my furling genny and had a hard time raising them by email and phone. I went with Quantum because there was a local loft. I am still very happy with the Quantum sail. The downside to the local loft was that when I asked him to come and hang the sail and make sure I got what I ordered, he wanted to charge me to "teach" me how to hang and trim the sail - i.e. go sailing with me. Lets just say we reached an accomodation.

All in all my experience is that if you have local loft, they score high in on-site service and may get the nod. If my brother wasn't laying in Phuket it would be a much more stressfull purchase.
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Old 01-12-2011, 21:13   #59
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Re: Rolly Tasker Sails

I have bought two headsails from National Sail and both are excellent in my opinion. The RF genoa is three years old now and looks and performs like new. The RF staysail was ordered a year later and the cloth and workmanship is just as good as the first sail ordered. The attention to detail is top notch in my opinion and the assistance over the phone was great, took all the stress out of getting the correct measurements for them. They are both the offshore dacron cruising sails. I'm a very happy customer and will be ordering from them again. Price was 2/3 of the lowest local loft and 1/3 of the highest.
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Old 01-12-2011, 21:41   #60
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PS - for anyone who has loooked at the pictures...

Note that the sail panels are vertically cut. One camp argues that vertical seams in gaff main act as "rip stops" in case the sail lets go. In this case, the argument goes, the sail can still make power with the remaining panels or a "quick" bodge up is possible. On a horizontal cut sail the panel rips fore to aft and the sail is unusable even to complete the current passage. My biggest argument to this is that if a fore aft rip hits the seam it wont be long before it turns vertical and blows the whole panel out anyway.

The other camp argues that horizontal panels allow a better sail shape and if your sail is in the condition that it blows out (see my brothers sail) you should have already replaced it. The other argument is that loads are better distrubuted and while I dont see why, I dont have the experience or math skills to argue either way.

Opinions welcome... I will tell you what we did later...
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