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Old 29-07-2014, 07:54   #16
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Re: Reefer insulation

I used Aerogel on my rebuild to date it has performed very well. Because I rebuilt my boat it was very damaged. I had removed the FRP boxes. To insulate the boxes on the reinstall I wrapped the boxes in 8 layers of the product then a layer of the 10mil visqueen, to make a packaged insulated box. I then set them in place and used poured in foam to suspend the boxes them.

You need to where a respirator and eye protection not fun stuff to handle but worth the effort based on the results.
Jack
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Old 29-07-2014, 07:56   #17
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Re: Reefer insulation

Skipmac: as an afterthought: you can use thread to stitch aerogel to whatever you want. So you can attach it to a layer of blue board so you can put it in properly, and cut and remove the thread before glassing over, once all the walls are in their desired locations.


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Old 29-07-2014, 07:58   #18
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Re: Reefer insulation

Stevens: and latex gloves! That powder is a desiccant, so although there's no long term skin damage, it's still a bit unpleasant.


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Old 29-07-2014, 08:04   #19
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Re: Reefer insulation

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Originally Posted by antoha View Post
If I were building "in place" (instead of what I did, which was to do all the work outside the boat, and then place the finished product into the boat),
Lucky you could do that. In my case the finished fiberglass box wouldn't fit in the companionway so I had to build the whole thing in the main cabin, including all the fiberglass work, epoxy, fitting all the blue board to the outside of the box and then sanding the foam to fit in the cabinet. What a mess.


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On the other hand, now I kind of know how to lay fiberglass...
Me too. Only screwed up a couple of times. For example I found out that polyester resin is VERY sensitive to the right amount of catalyst. Just a few drops too much and it kicks instantly (and gets really hot). A few drops too little and a day later you are pealing off the previous day's work and redoing it.
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Old 29-07-2014, 08:18   #20
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Re: Reefer insulation

You could also go with Vacume Panel insulation.

You would have to do a little research and in the end it would be your choice.

Here a link to a thread about them. Vacuum Panels

I will be using them myself , encapsulated in blue board . Super high R values . Life span ????? Some people have used them and love them .

I was quoted 10 to 15 $ per square foot and a 2 week lead time to my custom measurements. There is a 1000$ minimum but my set up should get close to that . I just figure 1000$, or one boat unit, for the insulation.

This is my source. Answered all my emails , very good people . www.SealedAir.com

Its an option

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Old 29-07-2014, 08:24   #21
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Re: Reefer insulation

Skipmac: LeComte's boats were all built that way: cabinetry and equipment and wiring etc installed into finished hull, after all glass work was finished. So none of the modern "first hull then interior then cabin top". The trick for me then was "just" to figure out the order in which things were assembled. And I reused all the wood and put the cabinetry back the way it was, just replaced the Formica top (that ended up breaking as I was trying to get to the fasteners underneath).


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Old 29-07-2014, 08:32   #22
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Re: Reefer insulation

Typhoon: I heard that the danger with vacuum panels is: if you puncture it, that's it. And degradation of metal skin can happen for any number of reason. Once you lose the vacuum, its r value goes to 0, basically - so instead of gradual decay you get perfect performance and then nothing.

For me, that was just too high tech.


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Old 29-07-2014, 09:25   #23
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Re: Reefer insulation

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Originally Posted by antoha View Post
Typhoon: I heard that the danger with vacuum panels is: if you puncture it, that's it. And degradation of metal skin can happen for any number of reason. Once you lose the vacuum, its r value goes to 0, basically - so instead of gradual decay you get perfect performance and then nothing.

For me, that was just too high tech.


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I had similar concerns about the vacuum panels. Generally reliable but if you have one go bad then you're screwed. Considering what I would have to do to replace a panel if it ever did go bad I rejected them just on that. The high cost was just one more factor that confirmed the choice.
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Old 29-07-2014, 09:32   #24
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Re: Reefer insulation

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Originally Posted by Stevens 47 View Post
I used Aerogel on my rebuild to date it has performed very well. Because I rebuilt my boat it was very damaged. I had removed the FRP boxes. To insulate the boxes on the reinstall I wrapped the boxes in 8 layers of the product then a layer of the 10mil visqueen, to make a packaged insulated box. I then set them in place and used poured in foam to suspend the boxes them.

You need to where a respirator and eye protection not fun stuff to handle but worth the effort based on the results.
Jack
Hi Jack (a greeting one should never use when meeting a friend named Jack at an airport)

I guess it's moot since I'm done with my box but still find the Aerogel very interesting. I had to remove the FRP boxes from my cabinets as well. Not due to damage but because the existing insulation was worthless and I wanted to make the box a little smaller. Actually cut the original box into four pieces, cut a gap from the middle, glassed the pieces back together to make the smaller box and refinished the insides. What a job!.

So did you wrap one continuous sheet around your box? What about the bottom? How did you hold all the wraps in place while attaching the visqueen and installing the box into the cabinet space?

Not sure if it was that necessary but when I was sanding down the polystyrene I wore a respirator as well.
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Old 29-07-2014, 09:58   #25
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Re: Reefer insulation

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I had similar concerns about the vacuum panels. Generally reliable but if you have one go bad then you're screwed. Considering what I would have to do to replace a panel if it ever did go bad I rejected them just on that. The high cost was just one more factor that confirmed the choice.

Even if they hold there vacume for only ten years and then go flat you will still be way ahead , IE the cost of energy to run your refrigeration.

The worst case senerio would be R8 per inch with no vacuum , they have Aerogel cores .
But everyone has to make there own choice and way there options .

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Old 29-07-2014, 10:04   #26
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Re: Reefer insulation

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Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Even if they hold there vacume for only ten years and then go flat you will still be way ahead , IE the cost of energy to run your refrigeration.

The worst case senerio would be R8 per inch with no vacuum , they have Aerogel cores .
But everyone has to make there own choice and way there options .

Regards
But vacuum panels do not necessarily save energy or give better insulation, they just give better insulation in a thinner package. So a thicker foam insulation could equal the insulation of a vacuum panel. Since I had plenty of space then foam was a very workable solution.

But for me the bottom line was I did not want to risk having to rip apart my entire galley in case a vacuum panel went bad. Even if the risk of failure is 0.1% the time, hassle and labor involved are so huge that it was not worth it.
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Old 29-07-2014, 10:09   #27
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Re: Reefer insulation

Typhoon: oh, that's fancy. i then retract my objection about "great for a while then bust". that would have applied to the old glacier bay panels (and i couldn't find any other manufacturer at the time i was looking).

i couldn't find a link to vacuum panels on the website you posted; which way do i go?

and 1K for insulation is indeed not too much on a project like this (mine cost probably $300, but should have cost $600 if i wasn't trying to be cheap and use scraps, and in the grand scheme of things it's not so much compared to all other costs involved in the rebuild.)
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Old 29-07-2014, 10:36   #28
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Re: Reefer insulation

I built a new box using Aerogel and very happy with it. Used foil as well as vapor barrier and the end box size is 6 cu ft and it uses on average 24 amp hours a day which is 1/3 of what my old system used. Cost of insulation was around $700.
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Old 29-07-2014, 10:48   #29
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Re: Reefer insulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoha View Post
Typhoon: oh, that's fancy. i then retract my objection about "great for a while then bust". that would have applied to the old glacier bay panels (and i couldn't find any other manufacturer at the time i was looking).

i couldn't find a link to vacuum panels on the website you posted; which way do i go?

and 1K for insulation is indeed not too much on a project like this (mine cost probably $300, but should have cost $600 if i wasn't trying to be cheap and use scraps, and in the grand scheme of things it's not so much compared to all other costs involved in the rebuild.)

I have been watching this technology for a while. I remember Glacier Bay, Hmmmm I wonder what happened to them

They have got much better since then , These things are changing every year as more residential and industrial builders are looking at them and using them in fancy buildings and homes , so there seems to be money to be made in the sector , which of course inspires companies to stay on the leading edge.

My application really calls for combination VIP and blue foam board. (limited space) Im just going to put the VIP panel in a routed out centre of a 2 inch blueboard . That will protect them and give me backup insulation . I will have to watch my amp hour counter on the compressors in the next 10 or 15 years to see if they have failed.


Try this web site

Vacuum Insulated Panels - Sealed Air Specialty Solutions - North America


Rodney CheekDirector Sales Development
100 Rogers Bridge Road P: 864-433-7024Duncan, SC 29334 C: 770-313-3921 SealedAir.comrodney.cheek@SealedAir.com


I talked directly to them

Regards.
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Old 29-07-2014, 12:57   #30
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Re: Reefer insulation

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Hi Jack (a greeting one should never use when meeting a friend named Jack at an airport)

I guess it's moot since I'm done with my box but still find the Aerogel very interesting. I had to remove the FRP boxes from my cabinets as well. Not due to damage but because the existing insulation was worthless and I wanted to make the box a little smaller. Actually cut the original box into four pieces, cut a gap from the middle, glassed the pieces back together to make the smaller box and refinished the insides. What a job!.

So did you wrap one continuous sheet around your box? What about the bottom? How did you hold all the wraps in place while attaching the visqueen and installing the box into the cabinet space?

Not sure if it was that necessary but when I was sanding down the polystyrene I wore a respirator as well.
Hi Skipmac, My brother in law wanted to help on the boat project, this was the first thing he helped me with totally whore him out. Was not sure he would come back after this project. It took the 2 of us as the best part of a day to wrap the boxes 5 sf for the freezer and 6 sf for the fridge. It was a lot like gift wrapping xmas packages. One person holding the stuff in place, from memory the hardest part was cutting the stuff. It really powdery we manage to keep it tight then stretched the visqueen and used duct tape to seal it all up. Never did take pictures of the process but here are two installing the marble tops to the boxes. I had built the front of the box enclosure leaving the end next to the stove of. Slid it in place closed the end in suspended the package and filled under and around the package. I did wrap sides and top and bottom. Jack
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