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Old 25-10-2009, 10:12   #61
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lunasea

I've just switched my saloon to Lunasea bulbs, using the warm color series, twelve LEDs per bulb. Last night was the first evening out on the hook with them, and they complemented the parafin lamp nicely. With four lamps on (a total of 48 LEDs illuminated) we were drawing about .5 amps, which is about 1/3 what we'd be using with the florescents. You could certainly read by these, and the warm color was far superior to any of the LEDs I've experimented with in the past. I'm feeling that I've finally got something functional for cabin lighting.

(I'd experimented with the cold color six LED-per-lamp model previously, and it's a loser.)

Lunasea Lighting, Inc.
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Old 25-10-2009, 10:43   #62
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Is there any data being presented by anyone regarding actual light output in lumens? That is, other than the cold-cathode flourescent lamps? The reason I'm asking is that this thread went from alternatives to incandescents straight to LEDs, discussing only that the LED lamps seem to get better as time goes on, BUT THEY STILL REMAIN 2 1/2 TIMES LESS EFFICIENT IN LIGHT OUTPUT PER WATT OF ENERGY CONSUMED. Sorry for shouting, just then, but isn't brightness and low consumption what this thread started out with? A couple folks here are brave and gutsy enough to have actually tried them, and responded quite positively about this class of lamp. CCFs are also dimmable, unlike others, should you not wish to perform brain surgery or repair your eyeglasses at night. And the color temperature is natural, not cold and blue. Yes, the CCF lamps require more total amps than an LED array, but then, if you combined enough LEDs to equal the total light output, it would be a far different story. Any thoughts? Any competing LED assembly that matches the output of (for example) a Taylorbrite? I don't think so, but I'm open to any options that would be cheaper than the Taylor lamps. I have had six of them on my boat for several years, and with the purported lifespan of these units, I won't be needing anything else for many years to come. Still, if I could get equal lumens for the same watts, and have them for less cost, I'd consider them. If I could get LEDs for fewer watts with the same lumens of light output, I'd be ready to buy them and spur the economic growth even more. At times I want LOTS of light, and I want to run the lamps longer than a few minutes, so I need efficient bulbs. Reference: http://www.taylormadeproducts.com/ta.../tech_ccf.html
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Old 25-10-2009, 10:52   #63
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I think it's a mistake to commit to an either/or system. On my boat we switch between CCFs and LEDs. The brightness is there when I want it, and the lower power + superior ambiance is there the rest of the time.

Having said that, I don't see much as use anymore for the CCFs now that I've got an LED system that I like. Maybe when someone loses a contact lens? I just don't need that much light inside the boat most evenings. When we do switch on the CCFs, it's usually only for a few minutes for a specific job, like washing dishes.
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Old 25-10-2009, 11:02   #64
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Thank you BASH! I agree almost completely. I, too, use specific purpose LED arrays for bunk reading lights, focused and limited needs such as adjacent to my engine's waterpump, etc. I am probably older than you, hence the need for greater light to perform equal tasks. I was only trying to liven this discussion to include a fuller dimension of light per watt consumed, and to sing the praises of powerful lighting systems to those who desire them, yet are conscious of their energy budget.
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Old 25-10-2009, 11:12   #65
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The problem I had when looking at the CCFs was the size and shape...I'm so anal about the looks of the interior I just couldn’t figure out how to have them "look the part".
I ended up ordering the I2 Systems Profile LEDs...some are the Profile Touch that will act as the switch and dimmers.
Haven’t seen them yet but a friend has and said they should do the job and look the part....I'll let you know when I get them and start messing with them.
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Old 25-10-2009, 11:15   #66
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We use the Taylor CCT over the galley and sink area and only turn it on when working there. It gives a nice diffuse light with good color temperature. Worked well with no problems (except expensive) for two years now.

All other lights except navigation are sensibulbs, or G4-WWHP6 for overhead halogen replacements and G4-WHP10-D for bulkhead lights from Superbright Lights. I mount the WHP10s into bayonet mount conversions from Fisheries Supply. The light is warm and plenty bright enough. I don't think they are over priced.

For now I have left the nav lights alone since I rarely go out at night, but do use them when its foggy. When out in the fog the engine is usually on so I don't worry about consumption. Oh yes anchor light is one of those Davis lights that use hardly any power--similar to LED by some other technology.
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Old 25-10-2009, 17:20   #67
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Have you tried the "Sensibulb" as mentioned in the link to your post #58?
They look like they have a spot of yellow paint on the LED....when I tested them they look like soft incandescent light….yellow-ish…but not really yellow like shooting glasses.
They are expensive.
I'm looking for a more distinct Yellow similar in color to what they are selling for the deck on your house. I was very surprised at how well they worked.

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Old 25-10-2009, 23:23   #68
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Any thoughts on altering the color of the lenses?
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Old 26-10-2009, 06:58   #69
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- - I would think that putting any "paint," etc. to alter the color would cause heat problems. The photo's of the Sensibulb shows what looks like a massive heat sink on the back side. For you who are using this item - is that a heat sink? How hot does it get?
- - It also appears from the photos that there are considerable electronic components on the circuit board surrounding the actual LED's. Are they "potted" in protective silicone material? Or are they exposed to the air for cooling purposes?
- - If they are not buried in protective silicone (or RTV) then the metal components will start to corrode in the salt air environment of a boat. Look at how your tools rust even when inside a toolbox. The biggest electrical problem common to all boats is corrosion at connections in the electrical circuits. The small halogen bulbs are particularly bad for corrosion on the little pins and then the light will not function. You cannot put any protective conductive coating on the pins or the socket as the extreme heat "burns/vaporizes" it off.
- - How do these LED units deal with salt air corrosion?
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Old 26-10-2009, 08:32   #70
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Any new tech. on this subject...I'm getting ready to buy all new area lighting and wonder if there is any new info on this...Bstreep are you still happy with your choice?
How about you Randy?
Updates?
Very pleased especially with the Sailor's Solution dimmable LEDs.
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Old 26-10-2009, 17:51   #71
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James, we are DELIGHTED with our LEDs. I can build a 1080 lumen fixture in neutral white for $50 in parts. In warm white, the cost runs up to about $60 and I only get about 840 lumens. But, with 4 fixtures in our quite large salon, they are NEVER all on at the same time - it's just too bright.

Also, it's hard to compare these to fluorescents. We had some brand new tubes that were supposed to be 1250 lumens, but because they are omnidirectional, they are WAY less bright than the LEDs.

I know I keep saying this - HIGH POWER LEDs are the ONLY way to go. They are expensive, and MOST of the fixtures available don't use the best ones. You can't look at their price and decide they are good - or not good.
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Old 26-10-2009, 18:17   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Is there any data being presented by anyone regarding actual light output in lumens? That is, other than the cold-cathode flourescent lamps? The reason I'm asking is that this thread went from alternatives to incandescents straight to LEDs, discussing only that the LED lamps seem to get better as time goes on, BUT THEY STILL REMAIN 2 1/2 TIMES LESS EFFICIENT IN LIGHT OUTPUT PER WATT OF ENERGY CONSUMED. l
Be careful in how you compare. PLEASE remember that fluorescent tubes put light out all the way around the fixture. Even the best reflectors (silver coated aluminum) are only 90% efficient - and they are rarely used. Most of the time there's never even a reflector... White, curved reflectors are only about 60% efficient. No reflector gives somewhat less than 50%. LEDs are directional - very little light is lost.

I also noted that Taylor's products are rated in "lux" rather than lumens. Lux is a the amount of light hitting an area.
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Old 26-10-2009, 20:05   #73
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Taylorbrite claims 80 lumens/watt. This is on a par with the best warm white LEDs, though as mentioned above the non-directional nature of the CCF tubes will cut into their effective luminance compared to LEDs. I think it is probably easier to get large amounts of light with the Taylorbrites, but your individual installation options might be the most important determinant of CCF vs. LED fixtures.

I've replaced a number of G4 halogen bulbs with LED modules, and posted some of my findings here: G4 LED replacements

As for corrosion in the marine environment, osirisail makes some good points. I don't have enough experience to comment on that myself.

Chip
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Old 27-10-2009, 07:31   #74
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I have a CCF and the light is great as is the lower power requirements compared to halogens. But the fixtures are just butt ugly! If only they would do the fixtures in trim attractive styles I would buy more. I get enormous light out of them and the they use a "freznel" sort of - lens that works great spreading the light to the work area.
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Old 27-10-2009, 09:08   #75
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Different tastes. I think they are beautiful. Low profile, minimal frame, mostly light area. As opposed to teak, or brass, or plastic. Simple slide switches also allow high or low light levels. I have no use for the optional dimmer switch, but it's still an option for those who want "mood" lighting, I suppose.

BStreep: I'm not an engineer, and the precise definition of how bright something is gets determined by my eye, not an international standard. All I can say is that the light output from my CCF lamps FAR EXCEEDS any other light source, in a cabin space, than I have ever seen. I have found only one, more powerful, and equally miserly (in terms of lumens per watt) light source: The HID spotlight (http://www.magnalight.com/pc-1344-11...125-x-125.aspx) but these are too bulky, bright and hot for even my cranky needs for overhead lighting. They are great, however, as powerful deck lights. You mentioned, earlier, that you had not tried CCFs. You should, especially in an area where you find yourself having to work with your hands and need plenty of light to see things clearly. I even have one in my engine compartment. I've never complained that it was too bright for this type of work.
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