Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-09-2012, 21:38   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Raising the Main

My main has been getting heavier as I've been getting older. I took some advice from a friend and bought a Milwaukee 0721

Milwaukee Tool Cordless Power Tools | Cordless Right Angle Drills | M28 28v Cordless Power Tools | M28 Cordless LITHIUM-ION Right Angle Drill Kit 0721-21 | Red Lithium Cordless Power Tools

and a winch bit

HOME

Both are quite spendy. The drill could be used for drilling but the winch bit has just the one use...

Together they work like a charm to raise my main using a self tailing winch on the coach roof at the compainionway. On Shiva the drill just reaches the dodger bow and is held in place and all I do is press the trigger. Look ma one hand!

This is one amazing combination. The 440 SF dacron main (46.3' hoist) with 4 full battens and 2 reef lines main and dutchmen is up in a few seconds and I don't break even one bead of sweat... or get any exercise for that matter.

This *improvement* in sailing was like the addition of the windlass. Anchoring is not a chore but a press of a button... same with hoisting the main.

I can't recommend this enough. My config worked perfectly. Others may not work as well... such as you might have to used two hands and hold the heavy drill. The battery needs to be recharged after a half dozen raises... but it has a gauge to tell you the charge state.

Try it... you'll like it... especially when you get older! hahahaha
__________________

__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 21:52   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Raising the Main

Have you thought about "sweating" the main? Have a crew member stand at the mast and pull the main halyard down. I have been able to raise a main almost all the way using that technique. Race crews use the technique on a regular basis.
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 07:54   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Raising the Main

Jack,

As I essentially single hand my wife being not much use I've had her tail the halyard as I *sweated* it up at the mast using the autopilot to steer to the eye of the wind. I can get it to 10 feet of the top. The I return to the cockpit and use a primary winch to do the last 10'.... and that's a lot of revolutions on the winch! out in the hot sun... usually. By the time I am done I am hot and a bit exhausted.

I find that making a bit of way and into the eye of the wind helps with the friction on the slides.

Millie however works a charm. From the cockpit I can steer the boat and watch the sail go up and it's effortless and fast. I wish I had gotten this device about 5 years ago at least. It's well worth it as far as I am concerned.

Boats with young strong crew without lower back problems can hoist their mains without power assist. Check. They can also manhandle the 8hp 4 stroke OB from the dink to the pushpit rail without a lifting crane. I use my Garhaur and manage quite well. Even my wife can raise the motor to the rail. Why struggle when there are devices to assist?

Give it a try... you won't be disappointed.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 08:16   #4
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,432
Images: 25
Re: Raising the Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
My main has been getting heavier as I've been getting older. I took some advice from a friend and bought a Milwaukee 0721

Milwaukee Tool Cordless Power Tools | Cordless Right Angle Drills | M28 28v Cordless Power Tools | M28™ Cordless LITHIUM-ION Right Angle Drill Kit 0721-21 | Red Lithium Cordless Power Tools

and a winch bit

HOME

Both are quite spendy. The drill could be used for drilling but the winch bit has just the one use...

Together they work like a charm to raise my main using a self tailing winch on the coach roof at the compainionway. On Shiva the drill just reaches the dodger bow and is held in place and all I do is press the trigger. Look ma one hand!

This is one amazing combination. The 440 SF dacron main (46.3' hoist) with 4 full battens and 2 reef lines main and dutchmen is up in a few seconds and I don't break even one bead of sweat... or get any exercise for that matter.

This *improvement* in sailing was like the addition of the windlass. Anchoring is not a chore but a press of a button... same with hoisting the main.

I can't recommend this enough. My config worked perfectly. Others may not work as well... such as you might have to used two hands and hold the heavy drill. The battery needs to be recharged after a half dozen raises... but it has a gauge to tell you the charge state.

Try it... you'll like it... especially when you get older! hahahaha
I'm glad you're pleased but you almost sound surprised. What? You didn't believe me?

It is also great for trimming the headsails--particularly when short tacking. With this tool, virtually every winch in your cockpit is now "electric". Good for you!

(Note that one should add a tether to the handle so the thing can't make it over the side.)
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 11:39   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Raising the Main

Indeed you are correct about using Millie to trim the Genny... sounds naughty doesn't it? However, I've pretty much found that I can still do that without too much strain. Of course in a blow the tension in the sheet it up there.

Funny Millie story...

We're getting ready to depart Newport and intend to not go ashore for several days and so stop at the water float to tank up. I took the sail cover off, the sail slugs and told the admiral to fetch Millie for me. She did... placed it on the bridge deck cushions. I docked the boat (myself) and set up the hose and passed to the admiral who filled the tank. When that was done I shoved off and headed into the channel to hoist the main.

Where's Millie? I'd seen her a few minutes ago when I jumped off the boat to tie to the dock. Millie's gone. I looked about quickly. Admiral says.. I dunno must have fallen in the drink...(impossible). I say screw it I'll hoist it from the mast... which I do and am pissed off doing it.

So we're underway downwind and I go below for a careful look and she calls on deck because of collision paranoia and I tell her to go below and look everywhere for Millie. She of course finds her where she was stowed.. under the V berth and tries to tell me that I put her there. Can you believe that rubbish from the admiral?

We gave her a new permanent berth under the nav station seat and I've ever removed her huge plastic case to my garage to gather dust. The thought of losing Millie was too much to bear.

Use it or lose it!
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 12:30   #6
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Re: Raising the Main

Is there a strain gauge in the system? How will you know if the systems friction is creeping up to dangerous levels? What about a hung slide?

Hopefully it'll be before the head board explodes...

Be VERY careful... I had a friend rip his roller reefing system apart using one to furl the sail in a blow after the drum hung up and his only clue was exploding parts..

Yea they do produce lots of power....

All you folks with boats that you can't raise or trim the sails without power are sailing boats that are too big for you..I'm kinda kidding!! but not much....
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 13:04   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Raising the Main

Ive found if ya maintain your slides, and furling gear your not gonna Blow them up useing power to raise them !! We have been useing an offset drill to raise and trim our sails for a long time !! never had anything Blow up yet !! Went ya have a mate thats all of 100 lbs and your over 60 ya need some help sometimes LOL so we will continue to use our drills and keep on smileing when the temps are up to 90 +!! Heck if I had the money I would have nothing but powered winchs, just like the powered Anchor gear Ive been useing for over 10 yrs now LOL Just sayin if ya want to use these things Im all for it !! anything that keeps my back in shape Im all for it !! We are gonna need em on our new to us boat 51 fter staysail ketch, with a genny furler!! LOL we are with ya all the way !!!
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 13:46   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Raising the Main

I don't think manually cranking a winch will tell you when you have a problem. I DO watch the sail going up and I do have a down haul set so the headboard is not sucked into the sheaves.

I appreciate the note of caution. Thank you. I am always looking for unexpected screw ups.

My motto:

It's never too late to screw things up!
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 18:54   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,450
Re: Raising the Main

I can actually see such a device in my future (at 74 y.o.) and it does not frighten me to consider "blowing things up" by applying too much torque to the winch. Why? Well, as far as I can see, it takes exactly the same amount of force on the handle of the electric drill to produce a given tension in the halyard (sheet, whatever) as it does on an equal length manual winch handle. The advantage in the electric thingy is reduction in the WORK done (force x distance moved), not the maximum force required. Thus, the feedback that tells you that something is jammed remains the same.

So, B&C's success with using one for years without destroying anything seems logical to me.

On our boat with it's Solent rig (which requires rolling up a big genoa to tack or gybe it) my big application would be on the furling line, not the halyard which one only needs to hoist once in a typical voyage. I can really see how that would improve my life!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 12:19   #10
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,432
Images: 25
Re: Raising the Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
I don't think manually cranking a winch will tell you when you have a problem. I DO watch the sail going up and I do have a down haul set so the headboard is not sucked into the sheaves.

I appreciate the note of caution. Thank you. I am always looking for unexpected screw ups.

My motto:

It's never too late to screw things up!
Jef--

You can use the "Electric Winch Handle" to entirely hoist the main (I am assuming you're hoisting with a cabin-top mounted winch from the cockpit) but one thing you can do to "say in shape" and yet make the job easier with the drive is affix an inverted jamb cleat on the side of the mast at about waist height slightly off-set from the alignment of the halyard from the exit slot to the turning block at the base of the mast. With this, one can hoist the sail as much as possible by hand and on your last "down stroke" lead the halyard to the jamb cleat. The cleat will hold the partially raised sail in place while you return to the cockpit, gather in the slack of the tail of the halyard and get a few wraps on your winch, and begin the balance of your hoist with the drive. As the halyard between the jamb cleat and turning block tightens, the halyard is pulled down and free of the cleat's jaws and the rest of the hoist proceeds apace, firstly in forward and then, when the drive loads up, in the opposit direction. With this I would not be concerned about over tightening with the drive as, if the drive's overloaded, the locking screw that holds the chuck in place in the angle drive will rupture--kind of a self limiting "fuse". (For that matter, it is wise to carry a few replacement screws as you will invariably break one or more as you learn the limits of the drive.) You can finish tightening the luff with a manual winch handle.

You might also consider making up a jacket for the drive. One can do that quite easily with Sunbrella, even by hand sewing, and the jacket will keep rain/spray out of the vent slots. A layer of 1/4" neoprene can also protect the drive and your deck when you drop the drive, which you will sooner or later.

We carry two spare batteries, availalbe at reasonable prices at Batteries Plus, and a 12v charger that will re-charge the batteries in about 2-1/2 hours. Like the ship's primary batteries, drive batteries should be fully charged and then stored in a cool, dry space to give you maximum use/life-span.

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 18:12   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Raising the Main

HyLyte

I'v had a wedge clamp just below the halyard exist on the mast for years and I do use it when single handing.. holds the main until I can winch in the the last bits. Works fine, but I have to remember to release or the sail doesn't drop!

I'm using a e speed self tailing winch on the coach roof top at the companionway. The line comes off the winch and drops below into the galley area. No prob. Millie's D hand is *stopped* but the dodger bow so I don't have to hold her to prevent her from spinning and not the winch. The bow does that perfectly.. I just press the trigger! Couldn't have designed it better if I tried.

As we're fractional out genny is not terribly large and so I don't need Millie for head sail trim so once she's raised the main she's returned to her berth under the nav station seat which is right next to the companionway. I don't see her getting a drop of water on her the way she is used. I will get a back up battery, but I am using the line voltage charger which I run when the engine is on leaving the harbor.. which I always do to cool the refer anyway. It's part of the routine.... charge up batts.. make hot water, cool the fridge (engine drive). Millie fits right in.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2012, 00:02   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Jeanneau Sunkiss 47
Posts: 39
Re: Raising the Main

Where do you find a winch bit?
__________________
HorizonMarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2012, 00:19   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Raising the Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by HorizonMarine View Post
Where do you find a winch bit?
First post says "and a winch bit" followed by a link mysteriously labeled HOME
click on the link
John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2012, 09:26   #14
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,432
Images: 25
Re: Raising the Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by HorizonMarine View Post
Where do you find a winch bit?

Click on: Winch Bit
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 07:22   #15
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 19
Re: Raising the Main

We bought one of these systems, and have blown the drill up the first time each time. Raising my 120lb little self up our 58' mast, and then raising the main. Each time the retaining screw that holds the chuck on sheared off. What are we doing wrong? Going too fast? Could we possibly have gotten two bad drills in a row? BTW there were no obstructions to raising me or the main, and we can do this fairly easily by hand. We were just being lazy. I've heard of people using this thing as a windlass, but just can't see the possibility with it having such a soft screw.
__________________

__________________
formrteki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ais

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.