Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2015, 22:12   #1
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,712
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Susan, suggest you go to the Bainbridge and Challenge websites and compare the fabrics that way. You'll get some idea then of what your sailmakers are thinking. If you agree, well and good, but if you want different characteristics, then you need to talk more with them.

We had a new main made here in Tasmania a couple of years back. Our sailmaker was able to get Dimension Polyant Hydranet* seconds for us, and cut our triradial main from that. The sail has beautiful shape, the cloth is very stiff, and should last a long, long time.

*you can Google Hydranet, too
Ann
__________________

__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 22:48   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 49
Posts: 720
Images: 13
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Marblehead is a great dacron, but is made for low aspect ratio sails.
__________________

__________________
CAELESTIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 23:51   #3
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Welcome to CF!
I'll offer up what help I can with your mainsail conundrum. There's one thread which I found regarding the fabrics in question here Bainbridge Ocean Premium Plus Sails
I ran across the thread by doing a search via Bing.com - And perhaps if you do that (as well as a search on here), & look for some reviews on the cloths in question it may help a bit.

It would be helpful to find out/know if the cloths you're considering are a balanced weave, meaning that they have the same strength equally in both directions. Or if one, or both is perhaps stronger (less stretchy) in one direction or the other (warp or weft/fill).
This is particularly important for a couple of reasons:
- You have a high aspect ratio main, as well as it being large
- The type of weave of the cloth plays a big determining role in how the sail is cut. AKA, What pattern it is, ie; Crosscut, Tri-radial, & a few others.
So that if the cloth has more stretch resistance in one direction than another, then the sail's pattern can be optimized to work with the fabric..
Thus, if these questions haven't been asked and answered yet, they may be useful tools in determining which cloth, & which sailmaker to go with.

One other possibly helpful tool is to ask, & or get a list of features on their "standard main". Here's one from Port Townsend Sails, in Washington State, run by (Carol) Hasse. It may help as a lot of the; cost, utility/ease of use, & life of a sail is in the detail work. Said loft is world renowned, having made thousands of sails for cruisers over many decades, in addition to being great people. http://porttownsendsails.com/pdf/classic_mainsails.pdf
Port Townsend Sails - new sails and repair for all sailboats
There's definitely some educational reading on the site if you have the time, also.

Ah, I don't know that they'll have this data, but it'd be useful to know the resin ratio or content of each cloth (for lack of a better term). Meaning how much resin is in each type of cloth vs. the cloth's weight. As some fabric initially seem stiffer & less stretchy (due to a high resin content), but can, in short order lose a fair bit of resin, & thus stretch resistance.

Good luck, & enjoy your cruise.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 04:07   #4
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,464
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Resin? Do you mean sizing? I can't really imagine sizing contributing any strength to sailcloth but could be wrong. If it was sized, I would expect it would be to facilitate manufacturing and for no other purpose.

Sizing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 08:42   #5
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Yes, in woven Dacron sailcloth, there's resin. It assists in preventing the weave shape from shifting, & is also a protective agent. If you feel an old piece of sail cloth as compared to a new one, the old one's a lot softer & easier to grip, in part due to the resin having broken down & worn off with time & flexing. That's why new sails have that waxy feel to them.
Generally speaking, higher quality sailcloth has a tighter, more consistent weave, & is less dependent on resin to hold it's shape. Thus it'll hold it's shape longer (not bag out), & also last longer in general, due to better quality fibers being used to weave it from.

For example, you can take a cheap piece of sail cloth, go heavy on the resin, & make it stiffer & less prone to stretch, for as long as the resin lasts. Once it really starts to wear off, such a sail will quickly go from a B-cup to a DD-cup.

Or, for example, think of a heavily waxed piece of canvas (not sunbrella) vs. a bare one, & how they differ in feel, as well as what the wax does for the canvas - enhanced wind & water proofing, stiffening, enhanced abrasion & UV resistance...

I haven't tried it, but you can get your sails cleaned & re-resined in order to extend their lifespan Sail Cleaning and Sail Restoration from Sail Care the process has been around for several decades.
Sail Re-Resining sail re-resining - Bing
Sail Laundering sail laundering - Bing

I'd think one of the keys to making this work too, would be to have it done well before the cloth itself begins to break down due to UV & flexing. Which to varying degrees, is part of the resin's job also.

There are also after market sail coatings (which aren't resins per say), but that's a topic for another time.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 20:01   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the Med
Boat: Nauta 54' by Scott Kaufman/S&S - 1989
Posts: 1,066
Images: 3
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Dacron again? In 2015?
Dacron does not keep its shape, end of any story

more....
Hydranet is quite expensive, stiff, and durable, yes!
It looks like a table cloth, to me..
__________________
TheThunderbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2016, 03:53   #7
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,571
Images: 14
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
Dacron again? In 2015?
Dacron does not keep its shape, end of any story

more....
Hydranet is quite expensive, stiff, and durable, yes!
It looks like a table cloth, to me..
So what are you recommending for Susan on her 48ft yacht with in mast reefing and the desire to use a local sail maker?

Susan, I found this website useful as a start point on deciding the quality pecking order for some of the more popular and well known sail cloths. The is a similar page on the Mack Sails page.

Sails, Sailmaking, Sailmakers, Lymington, South Coast, Hampshire, Sanders, Saunders, Yacht, marine upholstery, dinghies, quality, boat, design, standard
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2016, 17:45   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the Med
Boat: Nauta 54' by Scott Kaufman/S&S - 1989
Posts: 1,066
Images: 3
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Hydranet would be the best solution , bar the COST.

On a furling main, depending on local winds, I'd go for a low-reach, almost triangular main...
- in dacron, if in windy regions
- possibly, in hydranet, in more variable winds, for higher efficiency , if $ is a secondary issue.

Discussing with local sail-maker is paramount. If it is not liked, change the locality :-)
__________________
TheThunderbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2016, 22:33   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,006
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Yes and the fancy smancy expensive sail laminate cloths don't last. Yes, the laminates make for beautifully setting lightweight sails until they virtually blow up after a couple of years of exposure to the sun and stresses of cruising. Dacron will stretch but it's pretty damned good at holding it's shape for a long period of time and will take the wear and tear of cruising. Unlike the expensive laminated sails, dacron doesn't explode failing in multiple places simultaneously but goes gradually in small ways and can usually be kept functioning with a little patch tape and or needle work. Dacron isn't the ideal material but way better for cruising unless you can afford a new suit of sails every year or two. Sone Dacron is very stiff but not such a problem with roller furled sails that don't have to be folded into a bag at the end of a day's sail.

Aloha

[/QUOTE=TheThunderbird;1713528]Dacron again? In 2015?
Dacron does not keep its shape, end of any story

more....
Hydranet is quite expensive, stiff, and durable, yes!
It looks like a table cloth, to me..[/QUOTE]
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 01:51   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,960
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Can't over think this stuff, a roller furled mainsail is cut flat with a hollow leach and simply doesn't have the shaping ability of a normal battened sail with a full sized roach. It's basically a jib so any decent dacron fabric will do the job.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 02:41   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Three Sisters's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 427
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Susan, suggest you go to the Bainbridge and Challenge websites and compare the fabrics that way. You'll get some idea then of what your sailmakers are thinking. If you agree, well and good, but if you want different characteristics, then you need to talk more with them.

We had a new main made here in Tasmania a couple of years back. Our sailmaker was able to get Dimension Polyant Hydranet* seconds for us, and cut our triradial main from that. The sail has beautiful shape, the cloth is very stiff, and should last a long, long time.

*you can Google Hydranet, too
Ann

One of the forum members here also has considerable experience,

Technically Speaking | Sailing Totem
__________________
Three Sisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 02:52   #12
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,571
Images: 14
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

If the sail is cross cut, then Marblehead may be a better option over Hydranet as its a more balanced cloth for loads. Hydranet could be good for a radial main but its expensive (twice the price in the UK) and a radial in mast main probably not justified.

This is an interesting article on the different sail cloths:

http://www.dimension-polyant.com/pre...thly_72010.pdf


Pete
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 03:41   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the Med
Boat: Nauta 54' by Scott Kaufman/S&S - 1989
Posts: 1,066
Images: 3
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Anyone can try to live in virtual reality...

In fact, dacron loses original shape very soon (days!) then stays modestly good for years.

Laminate delaminates, rather than blowing up! Its strength does not relate to its weight, a great factor on Large boats (50'+).

Intensive cruisers may consider Vectran, or Hydranet.
Small boats and budget sailors can stay with dacron.

Choice is never easy, but honesty and unbiased arguments must be in place. There is no short way to sail clothes.
__________________
TheThunderbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 03:44   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the Med
Boat: Nauta 54' by Scott Kaufman/S&S - 1989
Posts: 1,066
Images: 3
Re: Purchasing new mainsail and confused...

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Can't over think this stuff, a roller furled mainsail is cut flat with a hollow leach and simply doesn't have the shaping ability of a normal battened sail with a full sized roach. It's basically a jib so any decent dacron fabric will do the job.
Yes, indeed
__________________

__________________
TheThunderbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mainsail, purchasing, sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New, Lost and Confused ! ( But Happy ) Dangermouse69 Meets & Greets 3 12-02-2011 16:26
Acrylic and / or Polycarbonate ? Confused ! Surf City Multihull Sailboats 27 12-07-2010 22:47
Dazed and Confused in Devon jonandbex Meets & Greets 9 02-07-2009 14:16



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.