Opinions on Radar

[CarlF]

I just wanted to comment on Mainebristol's view on AIS.

Unless I'm mistaken, Colregs doesn't mandate radar on any ship less than 1600 tons - just that a radar watch is maintained if a radar is installed.

On the other hand, the Coast Guard does require AIS to be installed and operational on most commercial vessels over 65ft.

I agree that both radar and AIS are important safety tools. What troubles me is that too many skippers feel that radar is a safe substitute for AIS in areas with significant commercial shipping.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I just wanted to comment on Mainebristol's view on AIS.

Unless I'm mistaken, Colregs doesn't mandate radar on any ship less than 1600 tons - just that a radar watch is maintained if a radar is installed.

On the other hand, the Coast Guard does require AIS to be installed and operational on most commercial vessels over 65ft.

I agree that both radar and AIS are important safety tools. What troubles me is that too many skippers feel that radar is a safe substitute for AIS in areas with significant commercial shipping.

I too are troubled that many skippers that feel AIS is a safe substitute for Radar.

I believe that both radar and ais are important, necessary and useful tools for safe navigation.

[captain58sailin]

While the AIS can provide useful data regarding vessels in your area, they cannot help with object avoidance, or other vessels that don't carry AIS. I have been using an AIS commercially for years and I don't understand the attitude that it is a replacement for the radar. A radar is a far more useful tool in every application. The combination of the two is a very good solution for collision avoidance.

[Fearnow]

QUOTE:
This past September I crewed on a boat from Victoria to San Diego, 13 days offshore. The boat had a Simrad NSS8 display and 3G scanner. This did not do anything to impress me. Boats that were visible did not show on the radar and the gaurd zone function was pretty much useless due to constant false alarms. I couldn't find any adjustments that made any difference. It did pick up a rain storm at 6 miles though. Perhaps more experience would get better performance out of the unit.

Good to know. I demoed the NSS8 again this weekend and menus appeared and could not get rid of them. No knowledgable staff available.

[Rick01541]

I'm a costal cruiser. Until AIS is required for all vessels, it is useless to me. Radar on the other hand is indispensable.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rick01541

I'm a costal cruiser. Until AIS is required for all vessels, it is useless to me. Radar on the other hand is indispensable.

Im a coastal cruiser too ( I mean isn't everyone) , I like that fact that in high trafficked areas ships can SEE ME. AIS is about alerting others to your presence. not the other way around. AIS receive is a travesty

dave

[Tonyjay]

Originally Posted by Fearnow

Having AIS is in the plan. Another reason I want the radar, is that I don't want to get caught off guard at night, in the event a squall rolls through. 1700NM is a pretty good haul, and I will want some reefing notice. Appreciate your thoughts on that.

If it's weather you're looking for get Sirius Weather for the MFD. That will give you a lot more time to prepare for weather than radar. I have AIS, Weather and Radar. My order of use is AIS then Weather and lastly radar.

[captain58sailin]

It chafes me raw, the whole concept that "every vessel" must carry an AIS. How small are you going to go? 12' ? 10' , should every dinghy be required to have one? I have never understood the whole "There ought to be a law" mentality. How about just standing your watch and paying attention to what you are doing? Don't burden me with rules because you are incapable of managing your own program.

[Capt RonB]

We used a Furuno radar on our Ericson 38 that we had interfaced to our Garmin GPS. Loved it and wouldn't go cruising without it. I forget the model number but it was at least 10 or maybe 15 years old. It had about a 16 mile range with our mid mast mounted antenna but we seldom used it at ranges over about 6 miles.

We used the tracking features and the guard zones but I really liked the way it displayed waypoints. It put a target circle around the waypoint and displayed a bearing line to the waypoint also giving range and bearing info. What was cool is that the radar image sometimes didn't match the waypoint. For example if the waypoint was a buoy or marker sometimes the waypoint image displayed some distance from the programmed waypoint.

This feature saved my bacon one night when we were seeking out an anchorage that we hadn't visited in a few years. We programmed the GPS to a waypoint recorded sometime in the past. When we got within radar range, the radar showed our waypoint as being on the beach. Sure enough, the 'island', really just a large sandbar, had migrated and our old anchoring spot was on the beach. Neither our paper charts or our electronic ones showed the changes.

Thank you radar.

[Tonyjay]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

It chafes me raw, the whole concept that "every vessel" must carry an AIS. How small are you going to go? 12' ? 10' , should every dinghy be required to have one? I have never understood the whole "There ought to be a law" mentality. How about just standing your watch and paying attention to what you are doing? Don't burden me with rules because you are incapable of managing your own program.

Don't believe anyone said that - you might want to reread the posts. None of these devices takes the place of proper watch keeping and piloting of the vessel - that's clear in Colregs.

In my case - sailing the Great Lakes, AIS is invaluable view into potential ship traffic especially on the St Clair River which at times is serpentine and with a narrow channel. In that situation neither my eyeballs nor my 4kv radar can see a freighter around a bend. I believe AIS for locating and or anticipating freighter traffic is a complementary tans important ool to my ship handling since it identifies the vessel, direction and speed.

[NSboatman]

Another vote for the garmin HD radar/740S plotter combination. child's play to set up, works very well, excellent tuning and target definition.

I've worked with a lot of radars over the years commercially and on deliveries - Furuno was always my favorite, but short of the 1623 I could never afford one of my own. When we put this garmin unit on our boat and ran it over 2000 miles this past summer, I was very pleasantly surprised.

I do have some difficulty with having "all my eggs in one basket" with respect to one MFD and one scanner... but in time a second MFD and/or a separate furuno 1623 entirely will be on the list. Mission critical gear (which, in my part of the world -Atlantic Canada- i consider a Radar to be) requires separate backups to make me comfortable.

Incidentally we also picked up a Standard Horizon 2100GX VHF with the integrated AIS output- again, absolutely flawless and easy to setup. recommend both highly.

bg

[captain58sailin]

I have read time and again on this forum by some of the newer members here, that every vessel should be equipped with an AIS.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I have read time and again on this forum by some of the newer members here, that every vessel should be equipped with an AIS.

I agree with your own post, but I think its fair to say that certainly within the next few years all commercial boats of whatever size will have mandatory AIS. Thats clear from the way the IMO are going ( i.e. fishing boats are now included).

Leisure vessels tend to fall outside such rules and no doubt will be the subject of individual government action , often as a result of an accident etc.

I suspect however that by then adoption of AIS in leisure vessels will have already approached VHF radio levels


Dave

[captain58sailin]

Okay, I'm sold, I'll have to pick up a 740s with radar package, can't beat the price. I like the looks of the 820 as well, but the pricing is out there as far as I am concerned.

[SvenG]

The pictures below show the Simrad SS display (bow up) when we anchored next to Isla San Martin off Baja. Our C-Map charts around Baja are often off by 1 Nm or more so anchoring at night in a new place without radar is not an option.



The same anchorage shown in Charlies Charts is below



Being able to see how far from the shoreline we are (making sure the water depth falls off rapidly so we don't run aground) and seeing the powerboat 1/8 of a Nm to starboard was wonderful. Picking out the lagoon helped orient us further.

Between paper charts, chartplotter, cruising guides, radar, and depthsounder we usually felt we had enough info to anchor in the dark, but when we didn't we just hovered off shore until daybreak. It does seem to be an unwritten rule that we always arrive well after sunset no matter where we are going. Oh, when in fishing areas someone has to be on the bow with a light to look for floats.

The middle of this linked page shows how "useful" some of the navigation aids are down here. The page does not mention that we used the radar to get range reading when pulling in across the island (which wasn't there) shown on the chartplotter.

http://www.grenander.com/Senta_II/Bl...4_Entry_1.html

We've just ordered about $400 of newly surveyed Navy charts for the T-pecker region since we'll be crossing that this coming spring and do not want to have to guess about where to go if it is howling.



-Sven