New vs Original edition of the Rigger's Apprentice

[GILow]

Hi all,

I had been hanging out for the new edition of the Rigger's Apprentice by Brion Toss. It was released late last year.

But now I am a student again I don't fee all that good about shelling out the $$$ for the book (which I am sure is very good value) and I am wondering if I should just get the original edition secondhand on fleebay.

Has anyone seen the new edition and if so do you feel like commenting on whether the additional material is likely to be useful to someone maintaining a conservative older (1982) heavy cruiser?

Matt

[UNCIVILIZED]

Curious question, as I've not read it yet either. Stumble would know, though I've not seen any posts by him of late.

[GILow]

And I suppose I should ask if there are any alternative books I should consider that I can buy secondhand.

I'm only thinking the Rigger's Apprentice because I am under the IMPRESSION it is one of the most useful for our kind of boat and the maintenance I am likely to need to make.

[Pauls]

Good information is one of the best investments you will ever make. Brion's book (I have the first edition) is a very helpful work. If he feels a second edition was worth the time to write, why would it not be worth the purchase price?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Pauls

Good information is one of the best investments you will ever make. Brion's book (I have the first edition) is a very helpful work. If he feels a second edition was worth the time to write, why would it not be worth the purchase price?

Well, no dispute from me on the good information/investment bit.

But I read somewhere that the additional info in the new edition was mainly to do with synthetic standing rigging, and if that is the case, it is not going to be of value to me because I have no plans to re-rig our boat with synthetics. Nothing against the idea per se, just not likely to happen given the age and nature of the boat.

Matt

[GILow]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Curious question, as I've not read it yet either. Stumble would know, though I've not seen any posts by him of late.

He might actually be... wait for it... SAILING! Yep, strange but true, I am reliably informed that there are actually CF members with boats who SAIL.

Gasp!

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by GILow

Well, no dispute from me on the good information/investment bit.

But I read somewhere that the additional info in the new edition was mainly to do with synthetic standing rigging, and if that is the case, it is not going to be of value to me because I have no plans to re-rig our boat with synthetics. Nothing against the idea per se, just not likely to happen given the age and nature of the boat.

Matt

Why don't you get the local library to order it for you, read it, then get one of the old ones from *wherever* for the ship's library if you don't need the new information for your boat?

Ann

[GILow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Why don't you get the local library to order it for you, read it, then get one of the old ones from *wherever* for the ship's library if you don't need the new information for your boat?



Ann

Why? Well possibly because I like to sleep with a clear conscience.

I don't really feel the local library should cough up the readies so that I can indulge in my particular exclusive hobby while being a total cheapskate. :^)

So although I applaud your clever solution I'll stick with my conservative conscience.

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by GILow

Why? Well possibly because I like to sleep with a clear conscience.

I don't really feel the local library should cough up the readies so that I can indulge in my particular exclusive hobby while being a total cheapskate. :^)

So although I applaud your clever solution I'll stick with my conservative conscience.

Ordering = inter-library loan .... something the library does every day

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jd1

Ordering = inter-library loan .... something the library does every day

Does that mean the library has an unConservative conscience?

[UNCIVILIZED]

I started a thread on where to find rigging knowledge & info a while back, & was tempted to call it something like "when Brion Toss is gone, where will the common sailor learn rigging" or similar. Regardless, there's some decent info in it, & you're also more than welcome to revive it... assuming that I don't
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rs-185167.html


EDIT: I'm more than slightly tempted to pick up the new book, if only because it seems like rigging is one of those things which unless you are a genuine apprentice, it's hard to pick up a lot of the things which wizened old riggers take for granted, knowledge wise. And it makes the rest of us pick up most of what we know on the subject, bit by bit. A little here, & a little there. With the irony being that a fair number of well rounded professional, or semi-pro sailors know more about rigging than do all but either senior journeyman, or master riggers.

Then again, such is the case in many of boating's sub-specialties. And it's why I try & learn from every genre of sailing that I can. As it's all connected. Though some stubbornly profess that it's not, even when it quite obviously is. Including some experts. Sadly.

As they say: "Once you stop getting better, you stop being good". And "The best teachers are also students", ones with open minds.

In an ideal world, Brion & some of the other top end riggers on the planet would sit down & write some textbooks on the subject. But... I'm not holding my breath while waiting for that to happen.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jd1

Ordering = inter-library loan .... something the library does every day

True, but the catalogue search system searches ALL of their peer's at the same time , and I know from extensive searching the whole group of them have very little in the way of books in this area.

So they'd certainly take a request, and maybe my request would not be alone, but I'd still feel it was a misuse of the system. It's just the way I am.

[Paul L]

Here's an Amazon review of the 2nd edition that sounds like decent coverage. The 2nd edition is usd$30 hardback and $25 ebook.

. This book is a wealth of information, but I finished it somewhat disappointed. Some sections of the book are quite irrelevant to modern sailboats - Brion has done a lot of rigging work on schooners, gaff rigs, barques, etc - but the vast majority of sailors these days do not have rope standing rigging. Mention of recent Spectra standing rigging techniques have been added to this update, but not in any detail.

The basics of rod rigging are covered, but very little detail beyond the characteristics of rod vs wire (ex, no diagrams of the various tang iterations from the two major manufacturers).

Nearly half the book - several hundred pages - focuses on rope techniques: knots, splices, running rigging, "service", and a chapter on magic tricks. Knots are important, but they are a simple matter compared to standing rigging, and many other books already do a decent job on them.

The best use of this book is for understanding the theory and principles of rigging design. He did a great job teaching how the loads on a mast distribute, how the spreaders work as compression members, etc

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Here's an Amazon review of the 2nd edition that sounds like decent coverage. The 2nd edition is usd$30 hardback and $25 ebook.

Hmm... thank you for that review. That does not describe what I am looking for at all. I thought the book was suitable for someone looking to maintain or improve their existing rigging. Maybe not?

I don't need to redesign my rig, I trust Ron Swanson knew what he was doing. I was looking for something that would give me strategies for inspection and repair, maybe with a bit of tuning or procedures for confirming the rig is tensioned correctly.

Can anyone comment on the book's suitably to those tasks?

[Russ]

Have 1985 cutter that came with gal anized wire rigging including the bitter woven/ braided ends, NO swaged, welded what ever fittings ALL braded as per first edition, which I have and use all the time. Couldn't find anyone on East Coast to redo braided wireas and it was getting pretty old! That said I have used high tech stuff for my lifelines from Colligo Marine -- Dyneema. Neat easy good instructions, did it myself.
When I redo rig I'll undoubtedly go high tech Dyneema type stuff again vs wire. If new edition covers the new high tech materials, Would be worth it!
Russ