Maxwell Windlass Gearbox Issues

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

On another matter related to the motor itself, have any of you fellows had problems with the casing of the motor rusting?
svHyLyte

It sounds like you have salt water intruding under the deck... It is more than a paint problem, if the motor is rusting.

Or is your "Under Deck Gearbox and motor" of your windless is exposed inside the anchor locker and the salt water the chain drags up with it? If that is the case you might want to hit it with salt away frequently.

On my 1200 the under deck gear is actually located behind the anchor locker, in a dry area and I have no problems with rust.

This location is also what caused he problems with my geaar box... I had no idea the oil seal blew until the gear box started grinding. To acces the windless motor, I have to pull out a washing machine and when I did I found the geaar oil hd leaked out on top of the washing machine.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by jeremiason

It sounds like you have salt water intruding under the deck... It is more than a paint problem, if the motor is rusting.

Or is your Under Deck Gearbox and motor of your windless is exposed inside the anchor locker and the salt water the chain drags up with it? If that is the case you might want to hit it with salt away frequently.

On my 1200 the under deck gear is actually located behind the anchor locker, in a dry area and I have no problems with rust.

This location is also what caused he problems with my geaar box... I had no idea the oil seal blew until the gear box started grinding. To acces the windless motor, I have to pull out a washing machine and when I did I found the gear oil had leaked out on top of the washing machine.

Jere-- Unfortunately, our windlass drive is situated in the chain locker, on the center-line between the port and starboard chain bins so to serve both bow rollers. The chain locker is covered by two lids, one on each side, that close over weather seals but water can make its way into the lockers via the chain leads forward (although we block these with split tennis balls placed around the chains and into the leads). Within the locker the drive itself is covered by a shroud--which is why it's such a pain to get to the drive motor. In theory, the motor should be relatively well protected but, in fact, it proves not to be and I have seen other installations of other windlass types, with the drive assemblies also in chain lockers, but evidently without the deterioration of the drive motors we have experienced.

Unfortunately, the situation for us is as it is. The motor is going to be exposed to moisture with an installation other than like yours, which I suspect is more uncommon than not. Accordingly, one would assume that the Maker would take appropriate steps to ensure the equipment could endure at least some exposure to salt water--like a stainless steel drive casing maybe? That is not the case, however, and a semi-annual dosage of T-9, Corrosion Block, or the like does not seem sufficient. So, I guess we will just have to do the annual re-hab/re-paint unless someone's got a better idea (a clear epoxy barrier coating?)

I am open to suggestions/instruction from more learned members....

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

I am open to suggestions/instruction from more learned members....

Obviously you are frustrated, but to make a comment like this after asking a question and not liking the answer is childish...

Good luck with your problem!

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by jeremiason

Obviously you are frustrated, but to make a comment like this after asking a question and not liking the answer is childish...

Good luck with your problem!

Jere-- Yes I am frustrated and was, perhaps, accordingly unclear. My last question was about a coating for the drive case other than paint. It was not about not liking the earlier responses by you and/or Jim. I have tried the Boeshield/Corrosion Block/CRC route--applied at reasonably frequent intervals--without success and SaltAway, which we use quite often elsewhere aboard, may deal with salt accumulation but not with the wetness issue of the drive's location which, I suspect, gives rise to the issue.

N'any case, its my problem so I'll just have to further research/experiment. If I find a more satisfactory solution, I'll post it for the benefit of others that might be experiencing similar difficulties.

FWIW...

[svHyLyte]

Further to my prior post, I have done some further research on Salt-Away Products, Inc. and its web-site reports that: "Salt-Away will break down salt build-up and it contains very high performing corrosion inhibitors that keep the salt from causing rusting".

We have been using a solution of Salt-Away in the heads on our boat every time they are used for the last several years and since then have had no difficulties with them at all. So, once I get our motor case cleaned up, again, I am going to try giving it a periodic spray of a Salt-Away solution as previously suggested, above, in hopes that will help resolve our rust/corrosion problem once and for all. I shall report on our findings.

FWIW...

[wsmurdoch]

Who is the actual manufacturer of Maxwell's motor/gearbox? Is it Bonfiglioli? My Muir 850 uses a Bonfiglioli MVF049, 60:1 reducer with a CIMA Matori 12v, 1000w, 3000 rpm reversable motor attached. Knowing who made the parts made it easy to trackdown spares. That said, I bought what I needed from Imtra in the USA as their price and delivery were both better.

Bill

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

Who is the actual manufacturer of Maxwell's motor/gearbox? Is it Bonfiglioli? My Muir 850 uses a Bonfiglioli MVF049, 60:1 reducer with a CIMA Matori 12v, 1000w, 3000 rpm reversable motor attached. Knowing who made the parts made it easy to trackdown spares. That said, I bought what I needed from Imtra in the USA as their price and delivery were both better.

Bill

Bill--

I don't know about the gearbox but the drive motor on the Maxwell is also made by Cima. We (me and my pal with the sister-ship to ours and the same windlass) corresponded with the Company when we first discovered the problem of the case rusting but they would not sell us a replacement motor directly and would only refer us back to Maxwell as to authorized vendors (where the motor was listed for $600+ USD). Needless to say, that was a little frustrating.

FWIW...

[donradcliffe]

The Maxwell rep at the boat show said that the only difference between the 1200 and the 1500 was marketing--he didn't mention the different mounting hole pattern.

Maxwell changed motors sometime in the late 90's because the original motor was very prone to corroding to pieces--my windlass gets very wet like SVHylyte's, and the motors were lasting less than 5 years. The Italian made replacement motor has had double the lifetime, but I have added coatings before I installed the motors.

[wsmurdoch]

I need to correct two things in my yesterday's post, and it is too late to edit. My windlass is a Muir 800 not a Muir 850. I saw the engraving on the drum when I dropped the anchor this evening. The motor manufacturer is not spelled CIMA Matori but rather CIMA Motori. I am a poor speller.

The local Bonfiglioli distributer identified the reducer for me.

Bill

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

I need to correct two things in my yesterday's post, and it is too late to edit. My windlass is a Muir 800 not a Muir 850. I saw the engraving on the drum when I dropped the anchor this evening. The motor manufacturer is not spelled CIMA Matori but rather CIMA Motori. I am a poor speller.

The local Bonfiglioli distributer identified the reducer for me.

Bill

Oh No!!!

Good Gravey Bill!?! How could you make such an error!!! This changes everything!

(or Not)

[Greggegner]

Does anyone have a US price estimate for a gearbox?

[Pacey16]

When I got the new gearbox it's a new design, probably answers my initial question

[barney1964]

Originally Posted by Pacey16

Maxwell are telling me the gearbox for the 1500 is identical internals to the 1200, just the spacer tube is different.
Well not too many people have admitted to having issues without abusing the windlass so it seems they are fit for purpose and I'll just replace it.
I really didnt want to change the windlass as I had recently fitted and auto anchor which is a great piece of kit for singlehanders.
Thanks for the feedback all.
Thanks for the feedback.

Hello all,
our VWC 1200 is behaving perfectly. Unfortunately (well, fortunately really!!), I have removed the windlass to fully service it / change the oil etc etc. We have only had the boat a few years and this important item is just about the last of our preventative maintenance to task to work on.

To my concern, I have discovered the lowest part of the barrel casing has corroded internally, to the point that the wall thickness has an approximate measurement of 1/8 th of an inch, rather than the estimated "when new" width of 7/32 th of an inch (ie) from 5 mm to about 3 mm.

For clarity, from Maxwell's VWC 1200 pdf User Manual, the item I am referring to as the "barrel casing" is the 105 mm OD tube that is used to separate the fitting with the worm in it, with the deck head. It does not have a part number.

So, I read with interest that the "spacer" is the only fitting that has changed .... what is the "spacer"?

As the unit has been behaving impeccably, I am hopeful of sourcing the part from Maxwell of through someone that may have the part (yet to approach Maxwell just yet), but know I am really going to need lady luck on my side.

Feedback / suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks all

sv Joule, home port Brisbane
Currently wintering over in SE Tasmania

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Barney,

That barrel is what corroded away to failure o n our original 1200. At that time i was able to source a replacement from the Maxwell distributor, then located in Capalaba. He was a good bloke, tried hard to be helpful. Unfortunately, since that time Vetus has acquired Maxwell, and their policies are far less helpful to us yotties. As y ou have likely discovered, there is no seal on the vertical main shaft, so that salt water has easy access to the barrel. There are weep holes to drain the area, but in the real world, they were not large enough and plugged. Now you have an aluminium housing full of salt water and a stainless shaft in the center... looks like a battery to me, and no surprise that it corrodes from the inside out.

The motor and gearbox are the same for 1200 and 1500 models, but the bits that join them together are different as is the main bronze casting. I doubt if one can use 1500 parts to hang the 1200 bits together, but not sure about that. The 1500 does incorporate a seal on the main shaft. It's kinda mickey mouse; a 'V" seal simply slipped over the shaft and compressed by the bottom of the gypsy wheel... but it does help, and it can be used on the 1200 as well. I don't have the nomenclature at hand, but I have been able to source these seals at the usual industrial seal/bearing shops, and they are cheap. They get eaten up by crud from the chain, so if you find some, buy several, and replace them every now and then... easy to get at from the top.

Anyway, if you can't find a new barrel, in your place I would clean up the old one, drill some much larger drain holes and try epoxy coating the insides of the cylinder or some such, trying to reduce the corrosion losses. If you have any friends with machine shops, you might investigate having it bored to clean up the surface and a sleeve epoxied in to reinforce it... or some such scheme! Wouldn't be too hard to make a new one from scratch, either if you were desperate.

One other thing: I find that the throat where the chain dives down to the locker seems just a bit smaller on the 1500, or something like that, for I have had lots more problems with the chain jamming in that area than I ever did with the 1200. PITA, too!

Good luck with it... they are pretty good windlasses in most ways!

Jim

[Pacey16]

I found maxwell very unhelpfull when it came to fixing the issue so much so they are on my list of "wont buy a product from them unless I have to"
I had a machine shop make a new tube in 316 for less than the replacement cost, my tube wasnt corroded at all but it was bent; cant remember being that rough with it.