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Old 17-10-2011, 17:41   #16
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

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Originally Posted by roger.waite View Post
How well would the raft separate if it dragged in the wee hours? But it sounds like there were other reasons to loose sleep! Nothing downwind? Then no worries?
Theres always something downwind that worries me ,
Thats why I sleep with two anchor alarms, one GPS unit, and I use Anchor Watch on my Phone.
Still I am a very light sleeper,,,
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Old 18-10-2011, 02:23   #17
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Theres always something downwind that worries me ,
Thats why I sleep with two anchor alarms, one GPS unit, and I use Anchor Watch on my Phone.
Still I am a very light sleeper,,,
Each to their own, but that is pure paranoia, or you really really need an anchor or anchoring technique that works and more to the point that you trust!

I have had this discussion with friends before, asking why it is they are quite happy with the boat at anchor in daylight hours, but think for some reason it will drag after dark or if they close their eyes!

I have been anchoring (and sleeping soundly) for over 40 years in a variety of boats, with a variety of anchors and in all sorts of conditions. If I had initially set an anchor properly and reversed it in, starting very gently and gradually leaning harder and harder still on it with the engine and it was proven to be holding, I would have every confidence that it would remain so whilst I slept under all normal conditions. If I was unsure about the anchor set, that would be time to move to a better spot. Anchor alarms are always likely to go off, maybe a bad GPS fix, or a blip in the depth reading or or or. I would be laying there fully awake listening for it and waiting for it to happen. Confidence and good anchoring practice beat any alarm in my book.

Just my opinion, no critiscism implied.

PS If fully confident as described, then the worry should be about what/who is anchored upwind, not downwind of you. I do like to pick those above me with care!
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Old 18-10-2011, 02:33   #18
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

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Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
I've had two times where my Rocna wouldn't grab because of thick, wide kelp. Instead of setting it would just grab a couple hundred pounds of kelp and drag. I really wished I had a delta those nights.
Weed and Kelp reduce the penetration of all anchors. Fisherman anchors and their variations are the best anchors in these conditions, but the Rocna and Manson Supreme are the best conventional anchors and penetrate the bottom better than the Delta, although the Delta is still reasonably good.

Smaller anchors are much less good at penetrating weed. We scale anchors up and down in size to suit the size of the boat, but the size of the weed does not change.
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Old 18-10-2011, 02:56   #19
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos
Theres always something downwind that worries me ,
Thats why I sleep with two anchor alarms, one GPS unit, and I use Anchor Watch on my Phone.
Still I am a very light sleeper,,,


Each to their own, but that is pure paranoia, or you really really need an anchor or anchoring technique that works and more to the point that you trust!

I have had this discussion with friends before, asking why it is they are quite happy with the boat at anchor in daylight hours, but think for some reason it will drag after dark or if they close their eyes!

I have been anchoring (and sleeping soundly) for over 40 years in a variety of boats, with a variety of anchors and in all sorts of conditions. If I had initially set an anchor properly and reversed it in, starting very gently and gradually leaning harder and harder still on it with the engine and it was proven to be holding, I would have every confidence that it would remain so whilst I slept under all normal conditions. If I was unsure about the anchor set, that would be time to move to a better spot. Anchor alarms are always likely to go off, maybe a bad GPS fix, or a blip in the depth reading or or or. I would be laying there fully awake listening for it and waiting for it to happen. Confidence and good anchoring practice beat any alarm in my book.

Just my opinion, no critiscism implied.

PS If fully confident as described, then the worry should be about what/who is anchored upwind, not downwind of you. I do like to pick those above me with care!
Oh, I agree with Dulcesuenos! I know exactly what he's talking about. Although I anchor the way Robin does -- carefully working the anchor into the sea bed with gradually increasing throttle, until it holds a couple of minutes at full throttle. Then plenty of scope and a stout snubber.

But still -- at anchor, I am always on anchor watch, aware, and responsible for anything that happens, even if I am "sleeping" -- at best, dozing with one ear open for the two (2) anchor alarms I always keep set, with the other ear open for a change in the wind or motion of the boat. Popping my head out the hatch from time to time to check those transits.
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Old 18-10-2011, 03:19   #20
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Oh, I agree with Dulcesuenos! I know exactly what he's talking about. Although I anchor the way Robin does -- carefully working the anchor into the sea bed with gradually increasing throttle, until it holds a couple of minutes at full throttle. Then plenty of scope and a stout snubber.

But still -- at anchor, I am always on anchor watch, aware, and responsible for anything that happens, even if I am "sleeping" -- at best, dozing with one ear open for the two (2) anchor alarms I always keep set, with the other ear open for a change in the wind or motion of the boat. Popping my head out the hatch from time to time to check those transits.
Sad! After a while you (should) develop a sixth sense that is as good as or better than electronics, be it a change of motion or a new noise or that the boat is no longer laying head to but side to wind or or or... Actually in that respect I think it helps to sleep up front instead of way back aft, but even then a change in the slip slap of wavelets under the stern, or the wind now getting in a side opening port or..

My very first anchor watch was on a Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter in the 1962 Tall Ships Race, anchored right out in Tor Bay (in Devon, soth coast UK) in the nights before the start. I was 17 years old, one of 14 crew and told to take regular bearings of a light on shore. At some time during the night they turned the street lights off, no bearing now possible! Seriously though I may well get up and look out occasionally (need a pee maybe or some little thing has alerted me) but I absolutely refuse to be a slave to an electronic beep!
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Old 18-10-2011, 03:46   #21
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
Each to their own, but that is pure paranoia, or you really really need an anchor or anchoring technique that works and more to the point that you trust!

I have had this discussion with friends before, asking why it is they are quite happy with the boat at anchor in daylight hours, but think for some reason it will drag after dark or if they close their eyes!

I have been anchoring (and sleeping soundly) for over 40 years in a variety of boats, with a variety of anchors and in all sorts of conditions. If I had initially set an anchor properly and reversed it in, starting very gently and gradually leaning harder and harder still on it with the engine and it was proven to be holding, I would have every confidence that it would remain so whilst I slept under all normal conditions. If I was unsure about the anchor set, that would be time to move to a better spot. Anchor alarms are always likely to go off, maybe a bad GPS fix, or a blip in the depth reading or or or. I would be laying there fully awake listening for it and waiting for it to happen. Confidence and good anchoring practice beat any alarm in my book.

Just my opinion, no critiscism implied.

PS If fully confident as described, then the worry should be about what/who is anchored upwind, not downwind of you. I do like to pick those above me with care!

A well set GPS anchor alarm will not give any false alarms, but remain sensitive enough to alert you if you begin to move.
I always reverse (full reverse for 30 seconds) to make sure my anchor is holding, but its not an absolute guarantee.

To give you just one example I recently followed the above routine, but also had a look at the anchor when I went for a swim. It was not set at all. The chain had become jammed under an isolated rock. A small wind shift would have released the chain and would have left us sleeping to an unset anchor.



An anchor alarm provides an extra level protection in these circumstances.
With the right GPS unit power consumption is minimal (0.2 A). I have one next to my bed.


I do agree that if you have good anchoring equipment and technique the main danger is boats anchored upwind.
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Old 19-10-2011, 07:32   #22
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

" Confidence and good anchoring practice beat any alarm in my book."
Quoted by Robin3-

Too bad we have had People on more than one occasion run into or over our anchor lines (note these were not sailors) So no matter how well you anchor, anything can happen chain failure, pins coming out line chaffe etc etc moorings wear thru and break, and so on, an anchor alarm is a great backup to help save your boat in the event of the unfortunate occurs. Why not take advantage of technology , people use propane alarms, smoke detectors, etc, why not an anchor alarm...
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Old 19-10-2011, 07:52   #23
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
" Confidence and good anchoring practice beat any alarm in my book."
Quoted by Robin3-

Too bad we have had People on more than one occasion run into or over our anchor lines (note these were not sailors) So no matter how well you anchor, anything can happen chain failure, pins coming out line chaffe etc etc moorings wear thru and break, and so on, an anchor alarm is a great backup to help save your boat in the event of the unfortunate occurs. Why not take advantage of technology , people use propane alarms, smoke detectors, etc, why not an anchor alarm...
Dare I ask if you have another alarm that tells you when the anchor alarm has failed?

Dare I also ask if you go ashore leaving the boat at anchor and at that time presumably have no alarm to tell you if the boat has gone walkabout?

I don't see any difference between it being dark and me being asleep, and me being ashore pushing a trolley around the supermarket, because if I didn't trust the anchored siruation then I couldn't or wouldn't do either! Or would you insist on one person being on board at all times perhaps?

I'm not trying to preach, just explaining my own thoughts and logic.
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Old 19-10-2011, 10:11   #24
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

Agreed the anchor alarm is useless when you are away from the boat maybe 5- 10% of the time, when its more likely to be settled weather. I do not seethe logic behind then never using it, and making it useless 100% of the time.
(There are even alarms that will ring your mobile if you want 100% protection.)
The anchor alarm is cheap easy insurance, a week ago the alarm probably saved a friends boat from damage. I cannot see the reluctance to use an alarm. You donít even need to buy any extra equipment.
I anchor over 300 days a year and have to wake up a lot of boats with torch foghorn or dingy over and tell them they are about to hit the rocks. An anchor alarm would do this job without intervention.
Just my 2c.
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Old 19-10-2011, 10:59   #25
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

Geez, too bad your not around Massachusetts. I do want to point out that my first Delta was a 55# that I also could not rely on. That was my reason to jump to the 88#.

Both anchors slipped or plowed while I was in Lagoon Pond at Vineyard Haven. I don't dive so I don't know what the bottom conditions are in the Pond, my guess is that it might be proliferating with ell grass. Other locations where the bottom was sand (I could see the bottom) the Delta held well.

Earlier experiences with a 44# Bruce in my Silverton and my old Hunter 30 proved the Bruce to be a GREAT anchor EXCEPT in ell grass. But with the Bruce, I knew I was in grass because it would rip out a chunk of bottom so heavy that I could not lift the anchor when it was in my Hunter. The Silverton has a huge Maxwell windlass.

It is really a bottom issue as I see it. Unfortunately we see a growing incursion of ell grass in our local anchorages.

It remains until next season for me to either gain confidence in my 80# Manson Supreme or just give up on anchoring after all my years of doing so.

Foggy
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Old 19-10-2011, 11:41   #26
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Re: Love My Manson, but My Delta Is Incredible !

Story of my life that, wrong time, wrong place!
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