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Old 19-08-2008, 08:51   #31
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If it is intentional theft. I don't think that is the case in this instance. THink about it - you ahve a busy busines, but cash is very tight. You are using money coming in to pay for previous orders going out. The gap s getting bigger, but you are hopeful that you can close it in the future. The gap gets too big, and you fall out of favor with your suppliers, and things explode. It happens in business all of the time.

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
Is this indeed not fraud in most juridictions?
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Old 19-08-2008, 11:52   #32
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To turn that idea a bit backwards......

How often have we heard of the person who gets in debt to the credit card companies. They try to get ahead of the curve but some minor thing(several small things combined usually) happens and they can't make the payments on time. Then the CCs then start adding late fees and jacking up the interest making a bad situation worse. Before long they get further and further behind until finally they throw up their hands in defeat. The CCs write off the account as a loss and sell the account to a collector who hounds the debtor, sometimes for years. The account may be sold several times before it finally just goes away. By this time the debtor has reestablished their credit(usually to the same CCs)and trys it again. Hopefully with better results. Working from one check to the next is no time to see how if a down turn in the economy will effect your bottom line. No company should be able to charge 29.9% interest or $35 for a late fee. That is government sanctioned usary but it happens all the time to us working stiffs and small companies too.......m
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Old 19-08-2008, 12:38   #33
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That is all fine and good but any company heading to bankruptcy knows well in advance it is in trouble and continuing to take orders you know you won't fill and taking payment for them is not in my opinion a responsible act of a company that has customer service and commitment high on their priorities.
Chuck and all,

Companies don't always see bankruptcy as the end, despite serious financial difficulties. The only way bankruptcy is a sure end is if you do stop taking orders. From my experiences with them, I highly doubt the people at Jack Rabbit were sitting behind a desk going "Oh...we're going into bankruptcy. Lets sell as much stuff as we can and pocket the money! - it'll get taken care of by some government worker!"

Further, does anyone have evidence that this is what happened to Jack Rabbit? As far as I can tell, everyone is speculating based on something posted on some other forum full of other people who were speculating.

Someone always gets screwed in bankruptcy. The people who wind up there seem, anymore, to be the nicer bunch of the crowd; with major, globalized companies taking over most forms of retail, all the little people who just want a quaint business to themselves are winding up in situations they have no experience with. Everyone is so used to dealing with big companies that we're forgetting most business can't afford to pay big financial consultants and investment brokers to take care of their long term goals. So they wind up screwed, as do a few of the customers they were trying to work with up till the end.

Do you really think Peter spoke with someone the day before and made it seem like everything was going to be fine the next day if he knew it wasn't?

Don't be vultures. At least try to believe people care and are good until you have proof they're not. We're all screwed if we don't try for that.

Fair leads,
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Old 19-08-2008, 13:58   #34
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It's hard to know why they went bankrupt. As a retail operation they make their money on the spread between cost of goods, expenses and revenue. They had a very low overhead operation when I was there. No expensive retail space - they were located in a small location in an industrial park. The had one admin or perhaps two (I only saw one) and there seemed to be only two or three sales/tech people Steve and Peter and another fellow who actually came to my boat to test the Link. I am 1/2 hr from their operation. They did do some installation and service obviously and I did not pay for the service call. I heard talk of a Test Boat which who knows what that was and the expense of that for such a small operation and then there are the salaries and market expenses which might have been excessive.

If the revenue dropped off and the expenses stayed up there they would get into cash flow problems and being such a small company they might not have had a cushion. And there was the fact that the company was purchased from the previous owner and they may be servicing that debt which was not an expense line before it was sold.

It's hard to act as if (west marine) you have big shoulders when you are a small mom and pop working out of a warehouse in an industrial park. Big guys can work on closer margins because of volume.

JR tried to bundle in "service" with the price point, but that must have brought them down as being too expensive as a cost of their business model.

The road to hell is paved with good intention.
Maybe the test boat got fully equiped and is headed out.

It certainly would not be the first time.
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Old 19-08-2008, 14:05   #35
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It might well be fraud, but to what avail? Do you sue the bankrupt company for damages? And wait to see if everything else has been awarded to others higher in line than you, years later? Moot point, unless you can get past the corporate shell and find someone with assets AND liability.
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Old 19-08-2008, 15:43   #36
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Reported on Panbo yesterday

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2008/0..._the_hole.html
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Old 19-08-2008, 15:56   #37
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Well Blahman, in my case, Peter told me over the phone that the $3000+ merchandise I was ordering would be available the next day (07/23/2008). Obviously nothing was shipped the next day and he knew it. And it became impossible to communicate with them from then on. To me, it is fraud pure and simple.
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Old 19-08-2008, 17:12   #38
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Peter told me over the phone that the $3000+ merchandise I was ordering would be available the next day (07/23/2008). Obviously nothing was shipped the next day and he knew it.
If that is the case than Peter is an SOB. But he did say he would make you whole.

Quote:
"JackRabbit has closed and is filing for bankruptcy. I'm sorry that you got caught up in this mess. My understanding of the process is that the court appoints a trustee who is responsible for liquidating the assets of the company and reimbursing the creditors. Your contact information and the amount owed will be provided to the court as part of the filing. If you are not made whole by the trustee, I consider it my personal responsibility to make sure that eventually the full amount owed is returned to you."
Good luck man, but I think you are F*&KED.
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Old 19-08-2008, 17:21   #39
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And the $2mm waterfront house James has supposedly put on the market...

This is smelling not very good.
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Old 19-08-2008, 17:24   #40
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And the $2mm waterfront house James has supposedly put on the market...

This is smelling not very good.
Cruising Kitty?

Got pics of the "test boat"?

I'm a little cynical. can you tell?
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Old 19-08-2008, 19:15   #41
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I haven't seen the boat, but I have been to JR more than 10x since 2005 and bought a load of gear from them before the change in ownership. I recall Steve Ivers, who did sales and tech support mentioning they had a boat where they test gear. Steve was a very helpful and knowledgeable guy. I had very little contact with Peter.
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Old 22-08-2008, 01:52   #42
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I know Peter James personally. Years ago he sold that $2m waterfront home; coincidentally it's on the market now. Currently, he lives in a small condo.

For the record, he's a man of his word: if he says he'll make good on his commitments, it'll happen. Maybe not right away -- clearly he's struggling -- but it'll happen.
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Old 22-08-2008, 02:21   #43
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Greetings, and WELCOME aboard the Cruisers Forum, Ctshore.
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Old 28-08-2008, 15:31   #44
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An end to the jackrabbitmarine saga.

It has been 5 weeks since jackrabbitmarine took my money ($3000+) but lukilly me I paid by Visa. Visa has taken the matter at hand and I am told they will recuperate the money through the vendor's bank. Since then, I re-ordered with Defender and received my merchandise 6 days after ordering. Defender do not charge your credit card until the merchandise leave their store. I know now that I should have bought through Defender in the first place. Buyer be aware.
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Old 28-08-2008, 15:38   #45
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It's still a shame. I have worked with Peter before buying items at their business in CT. I really liked the place.

This is what happens when a smaller shop goes under...

I can remember struggling to pay my employees when 9/11 and a large receivable caused me severe cash flow problems at my old software company.
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