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Old 15-08-2016, 00:42   #121
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

Perhaps, as Dave B suggested, movement of hull against bottom as the boat settles and re-floats abraids the copper oxides/salts off?
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Old 15-08-2016, 02:08   #122
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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David,

How often did you need to dust off the bottom when the boat was sitting still in a Med marina or outside in an anchorage with lots of organic material? I've been using the cheap anti foul for the past two years which worked fine in the clear waters off Sardinia, but over here in the calm but no so clear waters of Montenegro and Italy, the marine growth explodes in just a couple of weeks. Barnacles are particularly bad.

Our boat will be in the Med for the next 6-8 years, is Coppercoat worth it? Our boat gets hauled out 6-7 months each year.

Ken
We noticed up the east coast of Sicily, there was more growth per month than in Malta or even Tunisia (where we sat for a full year going nowhere in a 'nutrient rich' marina - although the water was still pretty clear).

We were told the fouling around Ragusa was particularly bad, and certainly saw evidence of that on other boats. For us, end of season was enough, so 5 or so months in the water would seem to produce enough furring (green in Sicily, brown in Tunisia) to require an hour or so in the water with a scraper or brush, or else a haul out if you are going onto hard stand at the end of the season or need to change saildrive leg oil etc (gee I fretted for weeks that the plug I screwed back in was not going to unscrew itself one day ....).

We looked at the cost and hassle of having to antifoul each year, vs the alternative of a clean, and decided that there was no question. Almost gave the idea away as the yard who were commissioning the boat were used to putting their preferred antifouling on and that was that. However we persisted and are very happy we did.

It's not perfect, and in some situations you may get more growth than with a regular antifouling suited to that area (they all seem to vary depending where). But overall, given the cost of slipping, and buying paint every year, we consider ourselves way ahead. Also, when the price is right, we will go for hard stand, and there is no issue with it out of the water for extended periods either.
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Old 15-08-2016, 02:11   #123
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

Thanks David for the info.

Ken
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Old 22-08-2016, 17:58   #124
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

It's been 1 year no visible growth on my Hydrovane rudder but I was curious to see how it held up. Have not had it wiped all year. Upon hauling out I was surprised to see no growth on the hull. Maybe 50 small barnacles that all came off with the pressure wash. A much better result than I had the last 2 years when I pulled to reapply Bottom Paint. What was odd was the the Maxiprop was covered as was the bow thruster. Upon closer examination we realized that the Coppercoat was gone. Called the office of Coppercoat and of course as always Jim Edwards answered and asked how we had applied to the prop. Turns out we had applied the Coppercoat on top primer. We needed to sand the primer very well before applying the Coppercoat. So we took it down to bare bronze and started over. As for the bow thruster tunnel and prop that remains somewhat a mystery but we will start fresh on it also. I'm very happy with the results and can accept we misapplied on the prop. I've read a few comments about Coppercoat and will zincs erode more quickly. The FAQs on the site say no and all I can say is after almost a year neither of my hull zincs nor my Maxi prop nor my thruster zinc showed any erosion. I will change them all anyway but will keep in my backup supplies as they look new. Lessons for coming year use diver 2 times a year to wipe bottom.



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Old 22-08-2016, 20:51   #125
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Any results back from the test yet?
No, I have all the panels and paints, but haven't done anything with them yet.

Thanks for lighting a fire under my ass.
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Old 23-08-2016, 08:31   #126
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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Emailed Fstbttms on this direct a few days ago.--kinda curious too.

M2cw:
I have only experience with ablative in the past, but this time wanted to give coppercoat a trial and are pleased with the result.

Left for eight months in the Waitemata.

Estimate of 10% of the fouling of my rib (control) along side.
I had to get the bottom half oyster shells off the rib with pickling paste. It was a freaking nightmare.Esp. on the rubber tube. Deflating didn't help much.
.
Conversely, on the CC the slime, misc algae and sick barnacles came off with a wipe.

As as another control, I put Awlcraft hard on the rudder.
Coppercoat beat it hands down.
My coppercoat was DIY, 325 mesh 99.4% purity 2Kg/litre of west 105.
Three coats, wet on tacky. Stirred profusely & continuously. (Not that aquaepoxy crapola.)
I'm happy. Time will tell....

btw, noo biocide.

This dude: 10 lbs Copper Fine Powder 99 Purity 325 Mesh | eBay
Coppercoat is a Trademark of Aquarius Marine. The alcohol-based epoxy they use allows very slow exposure of the copper to seawater thus oxidation (green) and effective antifoul.

Your mix is a suspension of copper (or oxide?) in West epoxy. West Epoxy is very good at containment/sealing things. You have essentially done what they do with this racing paint which stays bright and has no antifoul properties to speak of: https://schoonerchandlery.com/shop/m...r-paint-quart/

So either the West is not doing as it should--and thus you WOULD get good antifoul as the West fails--or you won't get sufficient oxides to the surface to allow antifoul. I think the mixed results many people have with copper/epoxy paints (not Aquarius Marine Coppercoat) are the variations in how the West or other solvent based epoxy hold up in the seawater.
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Old 23-08-2016, 08:47   #127
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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No, I have all the panels and paints, but haven't done anything with them yet.

Thanks for lighting a fire under my ass.
It will be interesting to see what you learn about fouling in your location in the Bay. Will it be Sausalito or???

We've had the boat in the SFBay since January and my husband has cleaned the Coppercoat hull twice. Once in April, once in July. We're in the south bay with shallow, warm waters compared to cental bay it is quite muddy here. Both times diving he was surprised by the lack of growth. In our marina location, divers say they must clean bottoms every 3 weeks all summer to prevent barnacles. We're not seeing that need with the Coppercoat though. Age of Coppercoat- applied beginning of 2009, waterline raised June 2010, Petit Vivid boot stripe replaced with Coppercoat Oct 2013. So majority of paint is 7 years old. Waterline paint 6 yrs, boot stripe 3 years. We haul every couple years because we're a wood boat. We check out the bottom to make sure all is good.
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Old 23-08-2016, 08:56   #128
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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It will be interesting to see what you learn about fouling in your location in the Bay. Will it be Sausalito or???
Alameda Estuary.
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Old 23-08-2016, 09:06   #129
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

That will be interesting. Make note of your depth and all. We've noticed in muddy areas where the keel is often within a couple feet of the sea bottom, the bottom of the keel can pick up interesting "things" sort of jello-balls for lack of a better description. LOL.
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Old 23-08-2016, 09:09   #130
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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That will be interesting. Make note of your depth and all. We've noticed in muddy areas where the keel is often within a couple feet of the sea bottom, the bottom of the keel can pick up interesting "things" sort of jello-balls for lack of a better description. LOL.
Depth is not an issue. Anti fouling paint tests are performed where fouling is worst, near the surface. Mine will be no different.
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Old 23-08-2016, 11:00   #131
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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As we always say, fouling varies from place to place and year to year, but as a general guide to cleaning Coppercoat, it is normally necessary at the same frequency as would be the case if you were using a good quality traditional anti-foul paint. So, if in your chosen boat location you usually clean twice year with normal paint, expect to have to continue with this cleaning frequency with Coppercoat.

The difference with Coppercoat is simply that it lasts for a very long time, eliminating the need to lift and repaint every year or two. So it doesn't stop you having to clean the boat, it just stops you having to go to the time, trouble and expense of having to lift and repaint it so often.
It seems clear that Coppercoat is not claiming any superior anti-fouling capability, but rather longetivity. Ewan is clear that users should expect to clean their boats just as often, but they will have to recoat much less frequently. So discussions about more growth or less growth seem to miss the point.
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Old 23-08-2016, 11:52   #132
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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It seems clear that Coppercoat is not claiming any superior anti-fouling capability, but rather longetivity. Ewan is clear that users should expect to clean their boats just as often, but they will have to recoat much less frequently. So discussions about more growth or less growth seem to miss the point.
Exactly right.
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Old 10-11-2016, 21:43   #133
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

Anyone in Australia had any experience with coppercoat anti fouling
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Old 11-11-2016, 00:38   #134
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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Coppercoat is a Trademark of Aquarius Marine. The alcohol-based epoxy they use allows very slow exposure of the copper to seawater thus oxidation (green) and effective antifoul.

Your mix is a suspension of copper (or oxide?) in West epoxy. West Epoxy is very good at containment/sealing things. You have essentially done what they do with this racing paint which stays bright and has no antifoul properties to speak of: https://schoonerchandlery.com/shop/m...r-paint-quart/

So either the West is not doing as it should--and thus you WOULD get good antifoul as the West fails--or you won't get sufficient oxides to the surface to allow antifoul. I think the mixed results many people have with copper/epoxy paints (not Aquarius Marine Coppercoat) are the variations in how the West or other solvent based epoxy hold up in the seawater.
I was aware of what the commercial coppercoat consisted of and aprox when the carrier was changed to more water permeable based epoxies.

I chose 100% solids with no diluent, or water tolerant constituents for my own reasons and would have put Trinidad over it if it didn't work, but it has, so I won't.
After a year in the water, very happy. Time will tell how much elbow grease I have to apply to expose additional copper.
Cost was a third of CC commercially available, plus I got another barrier coat.
Win, win.


Or how often the copper is re-eposed by abraiding.
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Old 11-11-2016, 00:41   #135
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Re: Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

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If copper sheathing is so effective against growth, I wonder why James Cook was forced to careen his vessels so many times to remove said growth? There are many references to this practice.

Jim
Jimmy wandered about down here around 1770 and I believe British naval vessels were not copper sheathed until the Napoleonic wars.

I seem to recall that when Nelson chased the French fleet over the Atlantic to the West Indies the reason he missed them was that his copper sheathed vessels beat them over there even though they had weeks start on him. One of the major tasks of the British fleet was to maintain an economic blockade of France and the British ships engaged would sometimes spend years at sea, you cannot do this if you need to careen regularly.

I think the copper used in the Coppercoat and like products is 95/5 cupro nickel and the copper compounds formed as the copper very slowly corrodes is what poisons the marine growth.
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