Is Coppercoat anti foul worth it?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GILow

I always knew you were a bit of a Toff mate. :^)

A bit????

Maaaate, I've put a shipload of hardwork, sweat and lotta tears to cross the tracks and climb the social ladder and I don't take kindly to criticism - unless ya drink a better red than me.

[GILow]

If you drink the red I drink I guarantee it will drag you down a rung or two on that lofty social ladder of yours.

[SailingBritican]

We've definitely seen CopperCoat working for some people but our experience has been a nightmare. I think a good question to ask yourself is this - if the application goes wrong and/or the product doesn't work, are you happy to lose the money you've invested?

We had CopperCoat Antifouling applied to the hull of our Oyster 56′ in 2016. Since then we’ve had nothing but problems. To get the full story, to date, watch the video I created outlining:

• our first CopperCoat application in North Carolina
• a haul out in South Carolina for CopperCoat USA to inspect issues and instigate fixes from the original boatyard
• underwater footage of the hull after the fixes
• the hull after our haul out in Trinidad & Tobago
• another full application of CopperCoat (product paid for by CopperCoat UK)
• underwater footage a month after the last application
• the hull after our haul out in Antigua
• underwater footage of our hull after another sanding in Antigua

You can see the video here: https://sailingbritican.com/coppercoat-antifouling/

[AntiFoulingGuy]

I am looking for feedback from boaters who have struggled with the anti fouling issue. Is this what you would normally expect from a hard coating after two years, sitting stationary, without cleaning? My product is in the middle.

Is the amount of fouling normal? Does the ease of removal seem normal or exceptional? Is the lack of barnacles remarkable? I am trying to determine where I stand here in the market.

https://youtu.be/7Mxb3dSSyws

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by SailingBritican

We've definitely seen CopperCoat working for some people but our experience has been a nightmare. I think a good question to ask yourself is this - if the application goes wrong and/or the product doesn't work, are you happy to lose the money you've invested?

We had CopperCoat Antifouling applied to the hull of our Oyster 56′ in 2016. Since then we’ve had nothing but problems. To get the full story, to date, watch the video I created outlining:

• our first CopperCoat application in North Carolina
• a haul out in South Carolina for CopperCoat USA to inspect issues and instigate fixes from the original boatyard
• underwater footage of the hull after the fixes
• the hull after our haul out in Trinidad & Tobago
• another full application of CopperCoat (product paid for by CopperCoat UK)
• underwater footage a month after the last application
• the hull after our haul out in Antigua
• underwater footage of our hull after another sanding in Antigua

You can see the video here: https://sailingbritican.com/coppercoat-antifouling/

We paid 3000 euro's in Seixal Portugal to apply Coppercoat for our Beneteau 473 in late 2016, this included taking off the old AF back to the barrier coat , applying 5 coats of CC and sanding before splashing

We have been in warm Med waters from early 2017 to Mid 2018 , crossing the atlantic end of 2018 . In august 2019 for the first time (In Bonaire) I noticed a few very small barnacles which easily came off with a broad stainless steel tool (used to apply stuff for drywalling , dont know the english name) we have had a small layer of slime on the water line , which easily wipes off

in 2016 when having it applied I figured 'if it works for 3 years I am ahead as I dont have to haul out every year applying new AF every year'

So far its good for us , a few small barnacles here and there but nothing major

One question I do have though , is 'regular' (poisonous) really that much better that is doesnt have a single barnacle growing on it ?

Anyway , if once every 3 to 6 months cleaning the hull , ridding it of some small growth , makes it so I dont have to haul every year and applying new AF and if it keeps that way for the next years . Its worth the 3000 euro for me

[ArmyDaveNY]

Keep in mind that CopperCoat isn't necessarily a more effective anti-fouling covering, but it is a much longer lasting and effective anti-fouling coating. It is a hard coating as opposed to an ablative coating.

N.B. I have not used it yet so the following comments are based upon conversations I have had with those who have and from what I have read from those who claim to have used it.

Claims from many who have used it:
Long lasting; ten to fifteen years before the need to reapply.
Roughly as effective as anything out there.
Very easy to wash off or brush off any growth at the end of the season or when diving on it to remove any growth.

I read one review by a British yachting magazine who tested it and they gave it high marks. They confirmed the above comments.

A few who have used it did not like it for generally one of two reasons; first some found it no more effective than their current coatings yet it was more expensive; it didn't last long.

It is important to note a few trends among the complaints. First and foremost, it is easy to complain but few take the time to either provide complete details; generally more will complain than compliment.

Second, many who complain had unrealistic expectations. A lot seemed to think it was dramatically more effective and they wouldn't need to occasionally clean the bottom of their vessel. CopperCoat themselves point out that while it is at least as effective as most bottom coats, it is long lasting and cleaning is easier.

Third, CopperCoat requires careful preparation. It is not difficult based upon what I have seen but failure to follow the directions can result in poor longevity. In many ways that is really no different than any bottom coat, or any work for that matter.

I have read similar comments for ultrasound anti-fouling. The end result seems to be that it works within reason, but care must be used when applying it. My thought is that if it indeed does last ten or more years, and if the cost vis-a-vis a traditional bottom coat that lasts at most three years, then it is worth it. I will save time and money (if hiring a diver on occasion) and above all not have to haul every two to three years.

I am going to give it a try the next time I haul out. Before I do though, I will ask them if they will send me a small panel I can drop in for a test. If there is a small charge for the panel it may be worth it. If they won't send the panel, I will get a small amount of it and use it on my hard dinghy which stays in the water al year and see how it works on that. I also want to try the ultrasound system.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

One question I do have though , is 'regular' (poisonous) really that much better that is doesnt have a single barnacle growing on it ?

While CopperCoat does have copper, I think it is far less poisonous than traditional ablative anti-fouling. CopperCoat is a hard coating so it doesn't flake off as the boat moves. This implies that there are far less that comes off during routine usage.

Because it is a hard coating, when it is time to remove it for a new application, it is usually done at a marina where it can be captured for proper disposal (assuming the yard does what they are supposed to do).

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

While CopperCoat does have copper, I think it is far less poisonous than traditional ablative anti-fouling. CopperCoat is a hard coating so it doesn't flake off as the boat moves. This implies that there are far less that comes off during routine usage.



Because it is a hard coating, when it is time to remove it for a new application, it is usually done at a marina where it can be captured for proper disposal (assuming the yard does what they are supposed to do).

I know all that , as it was one of the reasons we choose it , but is regular AF that much better in that it does not allow anything to grow on it ? , not a single barnacle ?

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

I know all that , as it was one of the reasons we choose it , but is regular AF that much better in that it does not allow anything to grow on it ? , not a single barnacle ?

I apologize; I misunderstood what you were asking. Again, sorry.


I don't think there are any anti-fouling systems that prevent everything from growing on it. From what I have seen, CopperCoat is generally at least as effective as traditional anti-fouling coatings. It seems to allow for easy removal of growth when it does grow.


Whoever invents a 100% effective anti-fouling will very soon be a multi-millionaire!

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I apologize; I misunderstood what you were asking. Again, sorry.

I don't think there are any anti-fouling systems that prevent everything from growing on it. From what I have seen, CopperCoat is generally at least as effective as traditional anti-fouling coatings. It seems to allow for easy removal of growth when it does grow.

Whoever invents a 100% effective anti-fouling will very soon be a multi-millionaire!

No worries
as long as its 'at least as effective' (or even slightly less effective with a clean every 6 months) we're happy

[B23iL23]

As others have mentioned, prep is critical. Check out this nightmare.

https://youtu.be/jVtzBenciz0

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

As others have mentioned, prep is critical. Check out this nightmare.

https://youtu.be/jVtzBenciz0

Simon posted a few posts back ? (scroll up)

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2963754

[B23iL23]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

Simon posted a few posts back ? (scroll up)



http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2963754

Oops. Thanks. Not good doing this on a phone!

[David B]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Keep in mind that CopperCoat isn't necessarily a more effective anti-fouling covering, but it is a much longer lasting and effective anti-fouling coating. It is a hard coating as opposed to an ablative coating.

N.B. I have not used it yet so the following comments are based upon conversations I have had with those who have and from what I have read from those who claim to have used it.

Claims from many who have used it:
Long lasting; ten to fifteen years before the need to reapply.
Roughly as effective as anything out there.
Very easy to wash off or brush off any growth at the end of the season or when diving on it to remove any growth.

I read one review by a British yachting magazine who tested it and they gave it high marks. They confirmed the above comments.

A few who have used it did not like it for generally one of two reasons; first some found it no more effective than their current coatings yet it was more expensive; it didn't last long.

It is important to note a few trends among the complaints. First and foremost, it is easy to complain but few take the time to either provide complete details; generally more will complain than compliment.

Second, many who complain had unrealistic expectations. A lot seemed to think it was dramatically more effective and they wouldn't need to occasionally clean the bottom of their vessel. CopperCoat themselves point out that while it is at least as effective as most bottom coats, it is long lasting and cleaning is easier.

Third, CopperCoat requires careful preparation. It is not difficult based upon what I have seen but failure to follow the directions can result in poor longevity. In many ways that is really no different than any bottom coat, or any work for that matter.

I have read similar comments for ultrasound anti-fouling. The end result seems to be that it works within reason, but care must be used when applying it. My thought is that if it indeed does last ten or more years, and if the cost vis-a-vis a traditional bottom coat that lasts at most three years, then it is worth it. I will save time and money (if hiring a diver on occasion) and above all not have to haul every two to three years.

I am going to give it a try the next time I haul out. Before I do though, I will ask them if they will send me a small panel I can drop in for a test. If there is a small charge for the panel it may be worth it. If they won't send the panel, I will get a small amount of it and use it on my hard dinghy which stays in the water al year and see how it works on that. I also want to try the ultrasound system.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Very balanced, and very much inline with our findings.

We have had Coppercoat on our hull since 2012 - so to date, that's 8 seasons, and it is still going strong. During that time, we usually haul for winter storage, but not always. On one occasion we left the boat in the Med in a marina with high fouling. The boats around us were testament to that with nasty hard fouling on their hulls. Ours after a full year of going nowhere, just had a layer of 'mud' around the waterline that fell off when I brushed my hand over it. Feeling down as far as I could (not swimming in that marina!!!), underneath felt pretty clean. We sent a diver down, he scraped the hull, but came up to report nothing much there at all. So in that case, Coppercoat outperformed all the other coatings in the marina by a mile.

At other times, typically we haul, and there is just slime or light green furring on the hull. A year ago however we picked up an infestation of tubeworm - it pressure washed and scraped off without any difficulty, but I thought it may be time to burnish the Coppercoat (so this was now 7 seasons since application). I did the rudder and the keel, but ran out of time for the hull. When we hauled later this year, the rudder and keel were almost totally clean, the rest of the hull was generally slime, but no sign of tubeworm, despite being again where we were the previous year. So from that, I figure the hull could do with a burnish (first time since application in 2012), but it's not urgent by any means - if I get the time I will, if not, another year will not hurt at all.

So that's our experience - not perfect, but at least as good, and often a whole lot better than any regular antifouling paint we see in our travels.
Over those 8 seasons, Coppercoat has saved us a lot of work and a lot of expense, and I have to say I just shake my head when I see the annual antifouling sanding, scraping and re-painting going on each year in yards we see in our travels. Yes, you can get some pretty cheap antifouling paint, and yes, Coppercoat is about double the price of decent antifouling paint, but the saving in effort alone, let alone the expense over 10-15 years just makes sense to me.

For another perspective, I was following the Golden Globe Race, and noted that the vast majority of competitors had serious fouling issues with Goose Barnacles etc - bad enough to cause withdrawal in some cases. There is an article on it in Practical Boat Owner (Jan/Feb/Mar 2019 or thereabouts). Apparently the only one who did not have issues put extra coatings (5 from memory) of ablative on, and did not launch the boat until the last minute sort of thing.

I compare that to the Clipper Round the World fleet that were all treated with Coppercoat prior to the 2017/18 race. There's a video around (I think you can find it on the coppercoat.com website) of them being lifted at the end of the race (the hulls were apparently not touched during the entire race). The video shows the lifted hull as being very similar to ours - a light coating of slime and that's about it.
So there's another comparison.

As to application, I have to touch up areas on ours from time to time (a significant time was where I had to re-build the bottom of our rudder when a marina berth we were put in revealed a rock right under the rudder when the tide went out - Grrr; plus little spots from time to time that reveal shiny gelcoat underneath where the yard did not sand before application - Grrr again !).

The application process is not difficult at all - just mix the resin and hardener 50/50, stir in the copper powder and roll it on. Of all the little touch-ups I have had to do over the years, they are hard or impossible to pick a year later once the copper has oxidised to the same patina.

I wonder if those who report issues have applied too thickly (so the copper powder sinks below the surface of the resin) or not enough coats, or it was not burnished correctly prior to launching.

All I can add is look at the success of the company - that has to tell you there are plenty of happy boaters out there, and I am one of them.

[David B]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

As others have mentioned, prep is critical. Check out this nightmare.

https://youtu.be/jVtzBenciz0

Yes, I noted they have turned the comments off - too many people telling them it was not applied properly I suspect.

At least they acknowledge it does work on other boats and it was working well on the patches the USA agent supervised for their boat.

I would love to know how an applicator can get it so wrong though. The yard that did our boat had never applied Coppercoat before, and we have no problems after 8 seasons (apart from little areas that flake off from time to time revealing bright shiny, un-sanded gelcoat - Grrr!).