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Old 12-04-2017, 20:52   #31
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

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Induction heating and microwave ovens works with a battery powered inverter system however the induction heating units require sine wave power inverters the other units will not work.
Thanks Rick.... You brought up an important new concern and issue for me.

HOW CRITICAL IS FREQUENCY TO AN INDUCTION COOKER?

My Generator is 220/50Hz but Philippine shore power 220/60Hz same as the local unit I ordered

Never been a problem with the microwave, but induction is new to me.....Is the pooch in trouble?

I have time to cancel, if it will not work!
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Old 13-04-2017, 01:21   #32
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Thanks Rick.... You brought up an important new concern and issue for me.

HOW CRITICAL IS FREQUENCY TO AN INDUCTION COOKER?

My Generator is 220/50Hz but Philippine shore power 220/60Hz same as the local unit I ordered

Never been a problem with the microwave, but induction is new to me.....Is the pooch in trouble?

I have time to cancel, if it will not work!
Well as no-one else has replied.....
Surely they would say if 50 hertz was ok....this one says 60 hertz ....then I would not take this risk...Buy a cheap single burner for a test and later when a 50 hertz 2 burner with dials is available, buy this.
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Old 13-04-2017, 01:56   #33
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

Holy week now in Philippines (a big deal here)

I will call service dept next Tuesday and ask... but don't expect a very confident answer from them...was hoping one of our electrical gurus would know if the tolerances are OK for induction
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Old 17-04-2017, 02:21   #34
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

As a followup to whether a travelling induction cooker are sensitive to different supply frequencies....no answer from Italian manufacturer

so I asked question on an electrical engineering forum....makes me feel a bit better

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q/300009/146543
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Old 30-05-2017, 03:46   #35
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

You can always install a victron autotransformer in your shore power inlet side. That should smooth things out.
My plan is to remove the propane oven/stove and replace with a gimbaled cabinet with a convection microwave oven and 2 induction hobs on top. Put in a 2 pot holders for offshore. Run it off a victron 3k inverter charger and a 5-6 Kw genset and a Lipo4 bank. Only propane would be for a grill using disposable refillable gas. Induction is the way to go imo.
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Old 03-06-2017, 23:11   #36
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

When I received my Elba induction range it had an international sticker 50/60 Hz and variable voltage, Installed and working fine on shore power / Victron inverter and Gen.

Love it!
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Old 04-06-2017, 00:41   #37
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
When I received my Elba induction range it had an international sticker 50/60 Hz and variable voltage, Installed and working fine on shore power / Victron inverter and Gen.

Love it!
Tell us more!!

Could you run it off your batteries for a typical dinner?

Have you measured real power consumption?

Does the Victron handle it OK? Do you have the nominally 3kW Victron charger/inverter (that's what I have so particularly interested).

What is it like to cook on?

For my part: I have had for a long time now an ordinary (non-induction) electric hot plate as a backup cooking device -- after so many gas supply scares.

This year I have left it permanently on the counter next to the main stove where it takes up no space and is not at all in the way.

I have been amazed at how useful it is and how much it gets used. I think I use it more than the gas stove already, certainly when in port and on shore power. Really useful and convenient and I think it has saved a huge amount of gas.

I think even on a boat with gas cooking, a marine gas stove with an electric (induction probably) eye or two makes great sense.

An even better incremental (without giving up gas completely) change would be some kind of electric convection oven. I would gladly give up the gas one in favor of an electric one -- the oven is used less often than the cooktop and I wouldn't mind running the generator when I need the oven off shore power, and at the same time, the oven uses huge amounts of gas and doesn't work well.

I have a kind of toaster oven, but it works badly and is in the way on the countertop, so it's back in storage. I could replace my built-in full size microwave with one with a small convection oven -- that might make sense but I have struggled with the dimensions.

What are you doing for an oven?
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:34   #38
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

Hi Dock head
We have not moved back on board yet as the finishing carpentry and revarnishing of floors are still on going.

So my testing was simulated

Some answers in your quote

Quote:
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Tell us more!!

Could you run it off your batteries for a typical dinner?

Easily, I have a very large house bank.

Have you measured real power consumption?
Not yet.... Only tested the limits of the Victron

Does the Victron handle it OK? Do you have the nominally 3kW Victron charger/inverter (that's what I have so particularly interested).

I have exactly the same one....

To test.. I simulated cooking a big meal for the Invertor by turning on our Turbo Roast (1300W) which roasts chickens meats etc and bakes
https://www.abenson.com.ph/products/cvo700g

Then same time boiled water in two pots then simmered one on small hob while I boiled a 3rd pot of water.

As I had a number of other DC consumers working at same time, i did not isolate to get a real load, but the victron worked fine with the Turbo Broiler and 2 induction elements on high at same time.

What is it like to cook on?
it is fast, clean and cool compared to gas
I think buying some better induction pots will probably improve its performance
http://blog.us.schott.com/boiling-po...s-to-the-test/
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:47   #39
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

I haven't seen much reference to gimbals in this thread.
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:27   #40
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Induction stoves for boats

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I haven't seen much reference to gimbals in this thread.


That's because the topic is induction not gimbals.

Gimbals seem like a good idea and look like a good idea but in extreme conditions add nothing. Forget them and make sure you have engineered things so pots etc are held tight.

You need gimbals for a small work area for making hot drinks at best.

Gas and gimbals are out, induction and secured pots are in.

Now back on topic please....
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:01   #41
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

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That's because the topic is induction not gimbals.
The topic is Induction stoves for boats. If you are going to talk about cookers on boats you have to address gimbals.

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Gimbals seem like a good idea and look like a good idea but in extreme conditions add nothing. Forget them and make sure you have engineered things so pots etc are held tight.
I strongly disagree with you. Gimbals are very important. Gimbals add a lot. I'm a delivery skipper and have sailed a LOT of boats. I have more comparisons than most people have the opportunity to make.

By the time conditions become extreme enough for a well-gimbaled cooker to be hitting the stops most people aren't doing a lot of cooking. By that time on a fixed cooktop pot restraints are not effective at all. Well before those sort of conditions I have had to quite literally tie pots and pans in place. You better have dual loop handles on your cookware.

Gas and gimbals are not out.

Induction is clearly more efficient than conventional electric. From an energy generation perspective the comparison with gas is dependent on fuel costs, generator fuel consumption, battery bank capacity, solar, and inverter efficiency.

A fixed cooktop may be fine for dock queens and coastal cruisers who hunker down and wait for placid weather windows. They are certainly going to lead to a lot of compromises on any reasonable offshore passage.

I'm not aware of any induction cooktops that are gimballed. To ignore that is short sighted and a disservice to others looking for information. Any given person may choose a fixed cooktop anyway, but I would hope they do so with their eyes open.

I have seen portable induction cookers attached to the top of a conventional propane cooker. Additional weight was required in the oven to balance the extra weight of the portables and the height of the cookware.

I can give you two examples just from the last few months.

I took a Valiant 42 from Annapolis to St Thomas. Conventional propane cooker in gimbals. Moderately bumpy passage. No problem pumping out three meals a day and innumerable pots of coffee and tea.

I sailed a Lagoon 420 catamaran from St. Thomas to Hampton VA. Fixed propane cooker. Similar to somewhat more benign conditions as the other passage. Even with doubled up pot holders (restraints) keeping food in the pots and pots on the stove was a chore. We cooked pretty much everything in a pressure cooker (which we had to recover from the floor a few times) and hot drinks (coffee/tea/cocoa) required monitoring which had an impact on watchstanding.

Regardless of energy technology a fixed cooktop will have a big impact on meal planning and contingency planning. Any electrical cooker will require contingency planning; I see lots of generator failures. Then what?

Induction has some real attractions. Lack of gimbals and energy consumption are not among them. Can those things be managed by accepting limitations and making compromises? Sure.

For the offshore sailor you simply cannot best a gimballed cooker and for now that is a major con for induction.

Gimbals matter.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:16   #42
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
The topic is Induction stoves for boats. If you are going to talk about cookers on boats you have to address gimbals.



I strongly disagree with you. Gimbals are very important. Gimbals add a lot. I'm a delivery skipper and have sailed a LOT of boats. I have more comparisons than most people have the opportunity to make.

By the time conditions become extreme enough for a well-gimbaled cooker to be hitting the stops most people aren't doing a lot of cooking. By that time on a fixed cooktop pot restraints are not effective at all. Well before those sort of conditions I have had to quite literally tie pots and pans in place. You better have dual loop handles on your cookware.

Gas and gimbals are not out.

Induction is clearly more efficient than conventional electric. From an energy generation perspective the comparison with gas is dependent on fuel costs, generator fuel consumption, battery bank capacity, solar, and inverter efficiency.

A fixed cooktop may be fine for dock queens and coastal cruisers who hunker down and wait for placid weather windows. They are certainly going to lead to a lot of compromises on any reasonable offshore passage.

I'm not aware of any induction cooktops that are gimballed. To ignore that is short sighted and a disservice to others looking for information. Any given person may choose a fixed cooktop anyway, but I would hope they do so with their eyes open.

I have seen portable induction cookers attached to the top of a conventional propane cooker. Additional weight was required in the oven to balance the extra weight of the portables and the height of the cookware.

I can give you two examples just from the last few months.

I took a Valiant 42 from Annapolis to St Thomas. Conventional propane cooker in gimbals. Moderately bumpy passage. No problem pumping out three meals a day and innumerable pots of coffee and tea.

I sailed a Lagoon 420 catamaran from St. Thomas to Hampton VA. Fixed propane cooker. Similar to somewhat more benign conditions as the other passage. Even with doubled up pot holders (restraints) keeping food in the pots and pots on the stove was a chore. We cooked pretty much everything in a pressure cooker (which we had to recover from the floor a few times) and hot drinks (coffee/tea/cocoa) required monitoring which had an impact on watchstanding.

Regardless of energy technology a fixed cooktop will have a big impact on meal planning and contingency planning. Any electrical cooker will require contingency planning; I see lots of generator failures. Then what?

Induction has some real attractions. Lack of gimbals and energy consumption are not among them. Can those things be managed by accepting limitations and making compromises? Sure.

For the offshore sailor you simply cannot best a gimballed cooker and for now that is a major con for induction.

Gimbals matter.

I agree that the question of gimbals is very important.

Most cruisers do most of their cooking at anchor or dockside, so fixed cookers will work most of the time, I guess.

But I could not cook on passage without a gimballed cooker, not even in moderate weather. Any kind of heel at all really screws up the cooking.

In fact I would go further and say that besides a gimballed cooker, you really need some kind of gimballed working surface as well, to cook with reasonable comfort. I find cooking offshore a real laborious hassle except in a dead calm, and I bet I'm not the only one. It's bloody hard to live on a heel altogether, even if it's only 5 degrees and no big boat motion, and I do really understand cat sailors on this.

I've just finished 1500 miles of sailing in May, much of it upwind, and was reminded again of how hard it is to cook offshore. I have a really well designed galley compared to other cruising boats, ideal u-shape with the sink inboard, front-opening fridge aligned fore and aft, as it should be. I've hardly seen a better thought-out galley. But it still sucks cooking offshore, trying to keep stuff from sliding down the counter as you try to cook, trying to get stuff out of cabinets which are facing downhill on a heel, etc. etc. etc. I was left really unsatisfied with how it all works offshore, however fabulous it is dockside.

I would like one gimballed working surface where I can lay stuff out which I am using immediately, and on the non-gimballed parts, some kind of fences or something to catch stuff and keep it from flying around. Maybe something on the bulkhead -- some kind of shelves with deep fiddles or pigeon holes where you can put different things you are using to cook with, without them flying around.


I don't see any reason in the world why an induction cooktop (and electric oven) couldn't be gimballed just like a gas one. I don't know why that is supposed to be a "major con".


After finishing this big sailing trip, I was left with new respect for Henri Amel's weird galleys. Aligned athwartships so that all the drawers and cabinets work on a heel, although that really makes a strange salon configuration. The more I sail offshore, however, the more I realize that Amel's weird stuff usually has a rather well thought out idea behind it.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:36   #43
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

Gimbals don't work in big storms and are dangerous. Strong well engineered pot holders that actually hold the pots tight do.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:43   #44
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

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Gimbals don't work in big storms and are dangerous. Strong well engineered pot holders that actually hold the pots tight do.
Nothing works in big storms. That's not the challenge.

But do "well engineered pot holders" work on a 20 degree heel? I can't quite imagine. Good gimbals do.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:52   #45
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Re: Induction stoves for boats

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Gimbals don't work in big storms and are dangerous. Strong well engineered pot holders that actually hold the pots tight do.
I respectfully disagree. Pot holders and gimbals supplement each other very well. Cannot speak for 'big storms' situation, but had been sailing Baltic (known for its nasty short chop) in F8 (bordering on F9) enough to appreciate a gimbaled stove.

I see two engineering challenges with gimbaled induction stoves (cooktops?). One is choice of type and routing of the power supply cable to make it least affected by movement, the other may be a non issue but it is worth investigating whether standard metal pot holders can be used with induction stoves and with what limitations if any.
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