Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-11-2010, 16:59   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Hydraulic Systems - How Do they Compare ?

We are looking for a hydraulic system for a sailboat above 25 meters. How would you compare Bamar, Navtec or Reckmann?
__________________

__________________
paje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 21:01   #2
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
What hydraulic functions are you considering? Depends a lot on whether you are just wanting hydraulic backstay +/- boom or furlers, windlasses, winches, hatch lifters etc etc. I am sure Reckmann are excellent on all counts but talking telephone numbers there.
__________________

__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 02:05   #3
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
To be honest having been involved in repairing a hydraulic furling main , jenny ,vang and backstage, I'd avoid hydraulics. There great when they work but their over complicated, very costly and complex. There is a requirement for special tools , specialised fittings and service procedures etc. We have reckmann and navtec gear and parts had to be flown round the world to be repaired.

Personally if it sizes right I'd go with electric furling and if I had to simplemanual pumped vang and backstay. Electrics are simpler to troubleshoot and easier and way cheap to install and repair

Dave
__________________
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 02:47   #4
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
We have four electric winches -- they are great. Foolproof and reliable. The entire system (that is, each winch) is contained in one compact unit, so no chasing all over the boat in case you have some problem.

We have a hydraulic lifting transom. Already had problems with the hydraulics in the first year. Fixed it myself, but it was a messy and unpleasant job. The whole system is way too complex for the job, in my opinion.

Sailed on a big Swan with hydraulic everything. It all worked fine while I was on board, but it made me nervous. The windlass and bow thruster were powered off a hydraulic pump driven mechanically by the genset motor. How many things to go wrong there??!! If you can't start the genset, you are stuffed! Not to mention all the other possible faults.

Hydraulics = great in theory, much less great in practice.

I agree with the above advice -- have a robust 24v electrical system and use electric-driven systems wherever possible. A little less efficient but SO much simpler.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 06:06   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Hydraulic Systems - How Do they Compare ?

Thanks for all. We are dealing with a new Bamar Hydraulic System for adjusting tension on Backstay, forestay, innerforestay and boomvang. It keeps loosing pressure. Our question is: Is this a Bamar specific problem or the other brands would probably have the same issues?
__________________
paje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 09:49   #6
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
There is bad hydraulic practice as there is poor electric practice. Read a few simple hydraulics texts and it becomes obvious that if you cut corners you get a sloppy job. I have been on several work boats which had impeccable hydraulics and the grunt to handle anything. Most yachts under 50' probably simply do not need that sort of power and electrics is fine. Bowthrusters and anchor winches are the two big consumers in boats over 50 -60'. Then if you are in for a penny you might as well have the rest so becomes an easier decision in >60'. Leaking connections and the like are reflection of the worker I reckon.
__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 10:13   #7
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillbuilding View Post
There is bad hydraulic practice as there is poor electric practice. Read a few simple hydraulics texts and it becomes obvious that if you cut corners you get a sloppy job. I have been on several work boats which had impeccable hydraulics and the grunt to handle anything. Most yachts under 50' probably simply do not need that sort of power and electrics is fine. Bowthrusters and anchor winches are the two big consumers in boats over 50 -60'. Then if you are in for a penny you might as well have the rest so becomes an easier decision in >60'. Leaking connections and the like are reflection of the worker I reckon.
But connectors are born to be leaky, sooner or later.

Our boat is 55' LOA and 24 tons displacement. We have a 10 horsepower 24v electric bow thruster which works just fine -- no need for hydraulic at all. The windlass is less satisfactory but if I upgrade it will be to a different electricals one.

The electric winches couldn't be better. And you don't have to start up any hydraulic pump to get any of this working -- just push the button.

I think that even much bigger boats will be perfectly happy with electric rather than hydraulic gear, as long as you've got 24 volts and enough power on board.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 10:45   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by paje View Post
Thanks for all. We are dealing with a new Bamar Hydraulic System for adjusting tension on Backstay, forestay, innerforestay and boomvang. It keeps loosing pressure. Our question is: Is this a Bamar specific problem or the other brands would probably have the same issues?
If your loosing pressure on all of them then you may just have a selection valve problem. If it's a new system then other thing is to look for fitting leaks.

Hydraulic Fitting Leaks
.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hydraulic-fitting.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	10.7 KB
ID:	21175  
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2010, 02:18   #9
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
The electrics vs hydraulics argument tends to get a bit simplistic, Hydraulic power comes from a pump driven off propulsion motor, generator, 240V electric pump, 24VDC or 12 VDC electric motor. So electrics and hydraulics can both be "push button". You need some decent electric power to handle a windlass or thruster in a big yacht. - can be done of course but is something more than just running a small cable up to the bow.
All systems have their pros and cons - electrics have enough issues that have been dealt with ad nauseum in other posts. Hydraulics have issues.
If you really want heavy power for windlass, thruster then hydraulics is the go.
All the furling stuff can be done either way. Probably the economics is in favour of hydraulics once you get to 4 or 5 functions. Not much extra cost for each additional function. For smaller boat then keeping to 24V electrics is fine.
__________________

__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Use Bruce #'s to Compare Multihulls Jmolan Multihull Sailboats 2 27-12-2009 13:44
Compare Garmin 4210 to 3210 Badsanta Navigation 0 08-05-2009 21:31
Hydraulic Systems dheaslip Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 1 24-03-2009 13:18



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.