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Old 20-01-2013, 16:05   #1
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Goretex

So, searching out new foulies and decided on Gortex in order to stay dry and have reduced weight clothing... West Marine store person tells me that Gortex is old hat - few people using it these days since it's been overtaken by other fabrics...

Is this true or salesmanship?
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Old 20-01-2013, 16:21   #2
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re: Goretex

It's not necessarily old hat but there are fabrics that work as good or better these days. I like Pertex for sleeping bags.
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Old 20-01-2013, 17:25   #3
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re: Goretex

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Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
It's not necessarily old hat but there are fabrics that work as good or better these days. I like Pertex for sleeping bags.
I'd agree with that. There are plenty of waterproof and breathable membrane materials out there these days. More than anything with foulies I'd look for toughened up butt and knees over the membrane material.
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:36   #4
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re: Goretex

The top lines of most manufacturers' foulies are still Goretex. Just look at Musto, Gill, Henri Lloyd, etc. There have been many evolutions of Goretex and I think it's still cutting edge. Just very expensive. Not old hat at all.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:14   #5
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re: Goretex

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The top lines of most manufacturers' foulies are still Goretex. Just look at Musto, Gill, Henri Lloyd, etc. There have been many evolutions of Goretex and I think it's still cutting edge. Just very expensive. Not old hat at all.
Totally agree.

Take anything somebody tells you in an outdoors shop with a large grain of salt. Turnover is high, and they're just telling you what the official line is from whatever manufacturer who's done a training session told them. West Marine sells many things besides foulies, so the chance that a WM employee knows enough about something as technical as waterproof breathable technology to help much is a bit slim. Some will, most won't.

There are three factors which are important: waterproofness, breathability, and price. There are many, many different "waterproof breathables" that excel at one of these, some that are good at two, and none that are good at all three. You can more or less objectively compare all three based on published performance stats, but these aren't published by all.

Remember that there are also many different flavours of gore-tex. The top of the line is Gore-tex Pro Shell, and it's main stand-out feature is that it is extremely breathable without sacrificing waterproofness. Unfortunately, it is also expensive.

I bought another fabric for my foulies with less breathability as I don't work all that hard sailing and I saved a bundle. My outdoor skiing, climbing, hiking jacket is gore-tex pro-shell, though. It cost three times the other jacket and was worth it.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:16   #6
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re: Goretex

I just went through this this last month as it was time to replace my foul weather coat.

There are other microporus fabrics on the market than Gor-Tex. Gill went to their own fabrics for cost reasons according to their web site.

The top of the line models by Henri-Lloyd (ocean explorer, and ocean professional), and Musto (HPX) both use a Gor-Tex Pro shell.

I ended up with the Henri Lloyd Ocean Explorer jacket over the Musto. Some of this decision was based on the Musto HPX having a neopreme collar, where the Henri Lloyd uses a fabric on the inside of the collar.
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Old 21-01-2013, 05:05   #7
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re: Goretex

As noted, Gore-Tex is still good, though there are now viable alternatives.

A couple of excellent articles:

Waterproof Breathable Fabric - Explained
UKC Articles - Waterproof Breathable Fabric - Explained

Rainwear: How It Works ➥ Rainwear: How It Works
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Old 21-01-2013, 11:54   #8
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re: Goretex

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There are three factors which are important: waterproofness, breathability, and price.
I would add fit, and I would trade price for it.
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:01   #9
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re: Goretex

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I would add fit, and I would trade price for it.
True enough. I was speaking of the material, not the jacket.

There are many other factors that come into the jacket itself, including fit and a hundred small, but important design details. For example, I'll walk away from any jacket that doesn't have the ends of the cords for the hood held captive somehow. If the designer doesn't know that a cord whipping you in the eye in a storm hurts, then they don't know much.
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:18   #10
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re: Goretex

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Originally Posted by Bill Balme View Post
West Marine store person tells me that Gortex is old hat [...]
Is this true or salesmanship?
Salesmanship. It's a long-standing peeve I have about the marine industry in general. If you say, "I want X," someone will immediately try to convince you to purchase "Y." This happens with riggers, with fabricators, with canvass shops, in sail lofts and in chandleries.

The motto seems to be, "The Customer is Never Right."
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:26   #11
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re: Goretex

I am 100% beyond GTX weather gear">foul weather gear.

Our Mammut GTX parka is 10 y.o. and still going. Our Henri Loyd and Burke 'breatheable' trousers died after only a couple of weeks of rough use.

Do not think about the membrane only. Look beyond and see what the shell composition is and why and how this will affect your comfort and the usable life of your, so to say, investment.

Toys like Musto HPX (example generic, first hand experience) are a joy to wear. My other choice is GTX stuff made for climbers - often slightly cheaper than the sailing brands but then again the top sailing brands protect from white water.

I prefer things with the minimum of inner plies - they are lighter and tend to dry sooner.

BTW get the gear that fits your sailing mode - not sure one needs an HPX grade gear for summer sailing on a lake ;-)

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Old 21-01-2013, 14:30   #12
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re: Goretex

I'm sure there must be other fabrics that are as good. But now ask the salesman, what other fabrics come with a 100% replacement warranty when or if they leak, like the one Gore offers regardless of who makes the foulies, as long as it has a Gore "extreme wet weather" or similar warranty on it.

I'd really like to know if anyone else offers that.
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:32   #13
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re: Goretex

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I am 100% beyond GTX foul weather gear.

Our Mammut GTX parka is 10 y.o. and still going. Our Henri Loyd and Burke 'breatheable' trousers died after only a couple of weeks of rough use.

Do not think about the membrane only. Look beyond and see what the shell composition is and why and how this will affect your comfort and the usable life of your, so to say, investment.

Toys like Musto HPX (example generic, first hand experience) are a joy to wear. My other choice is GTX stuff made for climbers - often slightly cheaper than the sailing brands but then again the top sailing brands protect from white water.

I prefer things with the minimum of inner plies - they are lighter and tend to dry sooner.

BTW get the gear that fits your sailing mode - not sure one needs an HPX grade gear for summer sailing on a lake ;-)

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That Musto HPX stuff is the bomb! This is the stuff that the Vendee Globe type sailors all wear and there's a reason. Amazing design. Over the moon price!
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Old 21-01-2013, 15:15   #14
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re: Goretex

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(...) HPX stuff is the bomb! This is the stuff that the Vendee Globe type sailors all wear and there's a reason. Amazing design. Over the moon price!
HPX comes in a couple of designs and not all cost you 'over the moon'. I find them reasonably priced (talking of a plain jacket/salopettes set). Recently we run into HPX ladies salopettes at EUR 140 only.

A one-piece dry will probably cost more - and it will offer max protection too. (I might be wrong but I think you can actually jump overboard in them and remain dry).

VOR and VG sailors as well as great many other sailing sportsmen and pros use not only Musto but probably equally often other brands. If you see JPD or Ken Read wearing something, it may be good for you too. It is pretty difficult to remain too dry on a cold rainy watch.

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Old 21-01-2013, 23:51   #15
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re: Goretex

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VOR and VG sailors as well as great many other sailing sportsmen and pros use not only Musto but probably equally often other brands. If you see JPD or Ken Read wearing something, it may be good for you too. It is pretty difficult to remain too dry on a cold rainy watch.
I've heard rumors that the pro sailors wear their sponsor's gear for the photo-shoots, but switch to their personal favorite stuff once the cameras are put away. Given the extra weight issue, and the fact that these boats are pretty much always shooting video these days, perhaps that rumor is no longer accurate (if it ever was).

I have Musto HPX and really appreciate it when sailing in nasty conditions. The jacket zipper could be better-designed though, as it requires some finesse to get started. There are lots of little details that may or may not suit you.

Gore is no longer the only game in town, but I believe that they remain one of the high-performance brands.
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