Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-05-2019, 23:24   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,114
Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Unleaded not desiel.

I'm thinking of putting in two fuel bladders to replace the plastic outboard tanks and Jerry can refills.

Anyone have issues with bladders ? Maybe grit or a loose screw wearing a hole ?

They will go into separate compartments under the floor on the rear deck. 2x200lt.
__________________

__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 23:34   #2
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 11,449
Images: 14
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Well, petrol fumes are heavier than air, so are these compartments totally sealed from the rest of the boat and also vented?

That's a huge amount of petrol to carry.

Pete
__________________

Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 23:37   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 2,526
Images: 7
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

I would not use bladders for petrol on a boat. They are to vulnerable to damage and petrol fumes to volatile.
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 23:49   #4
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 11,449
Images: 14
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

I am guessing he has a pair of outboards on a cat, so limited options. Still a lot of weight on the stern, that's the same as 4 large blokes.

Dave, presumably you are looking at something like the Turtlepac range.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 23:50   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Fort William, Highland, Scotland
Boat: Bavaria Cruiser 40
Posts: 764
Images: 16
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Only thing I would say is long term storage of fuel, such as unleaded, can result in nasty gunk and blocked carbs or injectors.

Are you really going to use 400 litres of unleaded fuel in a reasonably short duration? I had 5l go off in a few months stored in a sealed metal jerry can, with Fuel Treatment added.

Plus you are adding about 300kg to the stern of your boat so think about the weight implications too.
kas_1611 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 01:14   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,114
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
I would not use bladders for petrol on a boat. They are to vulnerable to damage and petrol fumes to volatile.
They do some fairly impressive testing but this is my worry, half my fuel in one container.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
I am guessing he has a pair of outboards on a cat, so limited options. Still a lot of weight on the stern, that's the same as 4 large blokes.

Dave, presumably you are looking at something like the Turtlepac range.

Pete
Yep, on the outboards.

I saw the Turtlepac at the show, seems pretty tough.

As you say a lot of weight up the back, I have a total of 100lt in the same place now and Jerry cans up front. It is a PITA when its a bit rough bringing back the jerrys and cyphen them. I think your right though about the weight, so maybe I should get smaller ones or not fill them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
Only thing I would say is long term storage of fuel, such as unleaded, can result in nasty gunk and blocked carbs or injectors.

Are you really going to use 400 litres of unleaded fuel in a reasonably short duration? I had 5l go off in a few months stored in a sealed metal jerry can, with Fuel Treatment added.

Plus you are adding about 300kg to the stern of your boat so think about the weight implications too.
I don't use much fuel now in and out through the leads and on the anchor/mooring. I'm thinking of cruising 6 months of the year from next year to some remote places and up rivers etc.. and I would like the capability.

At the moment I have fuel go off in the outboard tanks, I like the bladders because there is no venting and you can empty the air out so hopefully with a small amount of treatment it should last quite a while ???
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 01:17   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,114
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Well, petrol fumes are heavier than air, so are these compartments totally sealed from the rest of the boat and also vented?

That's a huge amount of petrol to carry.

Pete
Yep it's isolated, vented top and bottom externally, completely sealed to the interior.
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 01:58   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 191
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

I have 2x 300l bladders custom made by Fleximake in Melbourne, no problems with them, BUT I only store diesel in them, I would not use them for petrol, unless in a bottom vented isolated locker.
Bruce K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 06:14   #9
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 6,236
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
...
At the moment I have fuel go off in the outboard tanks, I like the bladders because there is no venting and you can empty the air out so hopefully with a small amount of treatment it should last quite a while ???

Add a silica gel vent filter. the gas won't go off for over a year. Also a good additive, like Biobor EB.



Sail Delmarva: Gasoline and Fuel Tank Vent Filters



(I'm a chemical engineer and have done a good bit of testing on the subject of gasoline stability in boats.)


---


I am also a licensed tank inspector, and bladders for gasoline scare me. No thanks.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 06:24   #10
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 24,656
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

And then I’d tell your that there are millions of airplanes flying around with bladder tanks, and of course you don’t see many fireballs in the sky.

It all has to do with being completely sealed from the rest of the boat, and I mean of course air tight, think propane locker.
That is I think the challenge.
Why not have custom plastic gas tanks made?
These people will make custom tanks to your drawings.
http://triplemplastics.us/#&panel1-1
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 07:59   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Where ever the wind takes me
Boat: Ericson 32-2
Posts: 8
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

I was very sceptical of fuel bladders too before I bought them. Now after a couple of seasons of throwing a 238 gal and a 300 gal turtle pack bladder in and out of aircraft to haul bulk fuel I would say they are very durable.

I do take a lot of precaution to sweep out the floor and even lay a sheet of cardboard down underneath them but they are surprisingly durable. I am loading and unloading them daily in the summer. I have even been known to throw some lumber or something on top of the bladders to deliver to customers needing the fuel.

Turtlepack does say to inflate them if you are going to store them empty so that is something to think about. But for a fixed position bladder I wouldn’t worry about durability as long as you took reasonable care to make sure they won’t rub on something.
AKPilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 15:09   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,114
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Add a silica gel vent filter. the gas won't go off for over a year. Also a good additive, like Biobor EB.



Sail Delmarva: Gasoline and Fuel Tank Vent Filters



(I'm a chemical engineer and have done a good bit of testing on the subject of gasoline stability in boats.)


---


I am also a licensed tank inspector, and bladders for gasoline scare me. No thanks.
Good to know. It would be good to get rid of the smell too.

Do you have to shut the vent off when not in use or is that with it always open ?
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 15:12   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,114
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
And then I’d tell your that there are millions of airplanes flying around with bladder tanks, and of course you don’t see many fireballs in the sky.

It all has to do with being completely sealed from the rest of the boat, and I mean of course air tight, think propane locker.
That is I think the challenge.
Why not have custom plastic gas tanks made?
These people will make custom tanks to your drawings.
Triple 'M' Plastics
I'll measure up and get a price, the issue is the opening at the top to put the tank in is smaller than the cavity for it but I might get a reasonable tank in by sliding it in on an angle.
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 15:18   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,114
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPilot View Post
I was very sceptical of fuel bladders too before I bought them. Now after a couple of seasons of throwing a 238 gal and a 300 gal turtle pack bladder in and out of aircraft to haul bulk fuel I would say they are very durable.

I do take a lot of precaution to sweep out the floor and even lay a sheet of cardboard down underneath them but they are surprisingly durable. I am loading and unloading them daily in the summer. I have even been known to throw some lumber or something on top of the bladders to deliver to customers needing the fuel.

Turtlepack does say to inflate them if you are going to store them empty so that is something to think about. But for a fixed position bladder I wouldn’t worry about durability as long as you took reasonable care to make sure they won’t rub on something.
Thanks

They are under the floor on the back deck and they do get grit inside, I could see a fish hook or some swarf from drilling a hole find it's way in, I might look for alternatives like those suggested above.
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2019, 15:58   #15
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 6,236
Re: Fuel bladders... yes/no ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
Good to know. It would be good to get rid of the smell too.

Do you have to shut the vent off when not in use or is that with it always open ?

Always open.



Don't EVER close a vent, other than on a portable tank. You will very likely rupture the tank.
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel & Water Bladders Dave in Eugene General Sailing Forum 5 28-12-2007 22:29
blackwater bladders craig Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 10-03-2004 17:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.