Defender "can't see the forest for all the trees"

[rleslie]

I know that West Marine receives a lot of static on sailing forums, but I have always received excellent customer service from WM.....I can not say the same for Defender. This is why they have lost a long time customer:

-I tried to place an online order, but the transaction was not allowed because the "billing address does not match the credit cards billing address".

-I called the customer service dept. and they stated the same thing. I then told them to just cancel the transaction.

-I then reordered via the internet using a different credit card. Several days later I received BOTH shipments. Now they want me to pay for sending back the original order that THEY said was refused and that I told them to cancel. Ain't happening.

So, I have disputed the charge with the CC company and will order from West Marine where I have always received great customer service. Example - WM replace 4 batteries (non WM) after a charger, that I purchased from WM via the internet, malfunctioned and fried my batteries. The store manager in Miami (we live in NC) apologized and replaced everything.

[ssullivan]

Not to Defend a company who obviously needs no "defend"ing...

But I have ordered from them before with my credit card and had the order ship to a different address than the billing address. I wonder why they came down so hard on your order? Strange.

I don't order from any companies that won't allow me to ship to an alternate address from my billing address for obvious reasons (liveaboard). I hope Defender hasn't started some silly rule. They will alienate a lot of customers that way if they have.

[FrankZ]

Doing business on the Internet is tricky. If you ship to a non-billing address you could (as the vendor) eat the costs if it is a fruadulent transaction.

A solution for customers is to contact your credit card company and add alternate shipping address or addresses. You need to do it in advance, but if they exist then the transaction should go through without issues. You may need to keep them up to date. I had to change the work address when the company moved.

[JohnnyC]

Sorry to hear Defender messed with you like that. Please keep us posted on what happens with your return.

Sometimes find good deals at Hamilton Marine or Jamestown Distributors.

Wish we had more options for boat stuff.

John

[dana-tenacity]

12 years ago I was getting ready to leave Dana point for Mexico, everything ready and gone in the morning. A tiny liottle plastic thingy on ther tillerpilot broke. Wentr to West marine, they didn't have one, the guy took a new unit off the shelf, opened it up and removed the piece i needed. Said he'd just send it back to the factory in the morning.
I've been a fan ever since.

[rleslie]

Surprise!!!!!! Surprise!!!!! Surprise!!!!!

I just checked my e-mail and Defender e-mailed to notify me that they are sending a UPS Return Label. They did this with no further contact from me. Wonder if someone there reads these posts.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by rleslie

-I tried to place an online order, but the transaction was not allowed because the "billing address does not match the credit cards billing address".

One of my tasks (at least until the end of the month when I start prepping to cut the docklines for a while) is running the IT systems for a retailer who does about half of their business on line. Right in the middle of a enterprise system conversion, just when I needed our legacy system to require as little service as possible I get a letter from our credit card processor stating that Visa and Mastercard were increasing their security. Specifically we had to send the Billing Address with every transaction. Due to the nature of our clients, we don't sell to the general public, this was a simple fix for us. For other retailers this has become a nightmare. Depending on the merchant bank they could be requiring as little as "1234 Street, Anytown USA 00000" to the exact billing address as it is known by your CC provider right down to the spaces. This is a tightening noose on retailers so expect this to get more stringent during the next year. Anyway, that may be what happened.

As for the fix. I suspect that when a manager was asked to respond to the credit card company he realized what happened and did the right thing. I've never had trouble with either and I still buy from both. West Marine for convenience and Defender for price.

[Pblais]

Wonder if someone there reads these posts.

We are world famous but not quite that famous. Writing a post here in expectation that the vendor will do something they would otherwise not do if you talked to them directly would be a mistake. You are always better off to call them up and try to work it out.

[AnchorageGuy]

typically online credit card transactions will kick back if the billing address for the credit card is not the billing address you give them. The question bears asking as to why you would not give them your CC billing address? This does not have to be the shipping address and I have a few accounts on line where this is the case. As a matter of fact my CC billing address is a post office box so items can be mailed but not shipped UPS, Fedex or the like. I don't see why your problem is with Defender since they where just following the protocol your CC company set up. So cut up that card if the policy upsets you. defender has been my source of first choice for some time now. I won't get into the issues with Worst Marine since it would take up too much time and space. dana's experience with WM 12 years ago is absolutely no reflection of the company today. Your experience with the return labels is more reflective of my experience then your CC issues which Defender has nothing to do with. If others have let it slide they are not following your card companies requirements.

[Islandmike]

Just today I was at Defenders warehouse in Waterford CT to purchase new sail track for my sailboat. There was some confusion on the price, however, after some discussion they not only honored the price that I felt was correct, they gave me a 6 foot section for free. I find Defender to be not only friendly but knowledgeable. And while West Marine is generally friendly, I find their knowledge of the marine world to be limited at best. I have also found Jamestown to be excellent to deal with over the internet. I have found both Jamestown and Defender to be excellent, providing they have the correct information.

[Pblais]

I have bought a lot of things from Defender and the local West marine employees are all personal friends and members of our Yacht Club. Sometimes WM is the better choice, but it's up to you to choose. That's not a bad situation as far as I can tell. Defender will ship to far away places but your credit card company is going to ask questions. There are a PITA when it comes to on line transactions let alone out of country transactions. Always, always call them if the shipping and billing address are not the same.

[rleslie]

Originally Posted by Chuck Baier

I don't see why your problem is with Defender since they where just following the protocol your CC company set up. So cut up that card if the policy upsets you.

For the third time.....my complaint had NOTHING to do with the transaction being rejected. It was how they handled my request for them to correct their mistake (double shipping a cancelled order) and their attitude towards a regular customer who was making a reasonable request in a very calm manner.

I have had good and bad experiences with both Defender and WM. I would say, overall, the service and selection has been good. There was a time when I would stop doing business with a place because their customer service was bad on a few occasions. I started to run out of local vendors.
Bottom line is, if the overall service of a vendor meets your needs, most likely, your wallet is not going to drive them to make changes. If they are consistantly bad in service or selection, most likely they will not last long anyway. I am glad to hear they made good on the deal. That is what I have come to expect from Defender.

[fstbttms]

I once had a West Marine employee hand me a brand new, $120 crimper off the shelf and say, "Bring it back when you are done." I have zero complaints. OK, one. I had to go to three different West Marine stores Saturday to find all the characters I needed to put my CF number on the bow of my workboat! Waaaaaaaa!

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

One of my tasks (at least until the end of the month when I start prepping to cut the docklines for a while) is running the IT systems for a retailer who does about half of their business on line. Right in the middle of a enterprise system conversion, just when I needed our legacy system to require as little service as possible I get a letter from our credit card processor stating that Visa and Mastercard were increasing their security. Specifically we had to send the Billing Address with every transaction. Due to the nature of our clients, we don't sell to the general public, this was a simple fix for us. For other retailers this has become a nightmare. Depending on the merchant bank they could be requiring as little as "1234 Street, Anytown USA 00000" to the exact billing address as it is known by your CC provider right down to the spaces. This is a tightening noose on retailers so expect this to get more stringent during the next year. Anyway, that may be what happened.

Yeap we just got a note from our CC people saying they now want the billing address with every transaction involving an offshore CC. Delivery address's can be there as well but to process the transaction they want the card number, the expiry, the security number and the actually billing address now. If any of those 4 don't line up it will be declined. The only way for this not to happen is if you have a PIN number and punch that in. This is fine if you at the shop/wherever but not if your not.

Local cards do not attract this attention.... as yet.

As we mainly deal with offshore crusiers using their CC, it makes me wonder if you lot are dodgy No not really, just more security and keeping the records straight for big brother would be my guess