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Old 10-08-2008, 16:35   #46
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Copper bottom coating

Regarding Copper bottom systems...
Please see my post at:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...int-929-5.html

Greg
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:00   #47
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Ok - next haul out, I'll bite the bullet.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:55   #48
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Del, you're talking about Copperpoxy, fastcat is talking about CopperCoat. As both manufacturers would probably shout--they're different products. And they might even shout loudly that the differences are significant. (Perhaps not, but I'd be surprised.)

fastcat, as I said, different bottom paints work differently in different applications. One hopes that your catamarans are moving faster than the displacement monoholls which are the typical VAST MAJORITY of the boats represented here. For all intents and purposes, you might as well be talking about comparing powerboats to saiboats, the paint criteria are entirely different. What gets washed off a hull at 10-12-14 knots, doesn't get washed off at six.

Coppercoat - multiseason antifouling. 10 years protection hard wearing copper filled epoxy resin copper antifoul antifouling. makes no formal warranty statement about their product at all. If you can find one, I'd love to read it. Especially the part where they are so confident, they'll pick up the boat, hual it, paint it, and relaunch it for you.

I'm glad the product works for you--but that's one product, in one set of circumstances. Have you been using it for five years yet? Any claims from owners? Or owners who have just repainted their hulls, rather than bringing the boats back to you? (Or does your written warranty include hauls and field visits to do the application?)
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Old 11-08-2008, 10:08   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Del, you're talking about Copperpoxy, fastcat is talking about CopperCoat. As both manufacturers would probably shout--they're different products. And they might even shout loudly that the differences are significant. (Perhaps not, but I'd be surprised.))
Copperpoxy and Copper Coat are the same type of product, much as one brand of ablative paint is the same type of product as another ablative paint. Copperpoxy and Copper Coat are both "copper-loaded epoxies" which should not be confused with the much more common (and effective, IMHO) modified epoxy type of anti fouling paint.
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:02   #50
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"Copperpoxy and Copper Coat are the same type of product,"
Same, and Rosie O'Donnell and Heidi Klum are both "the same type". Still, there may be some important differences between them. Don't you think? [VBG]

If you ask whether a specific product works, you can't substitute 'all allegedly similar products' for the specific product. Do they both use the same grade of copper? Same shape and size particles? Same alloy? Same epoxy matrix? Any additives? I don't know, and would rather not confuse the issue of one specific product, with the larger question of whether bottom paints work at all.

I know for a fact that one of those similar products is a terribly expensive and ineffective product, compared to plain old Micron Plus, in one location with one type of boat. I also know that some users, in other specifics, praise it. Truth is a coin, it changes from heads to tails depending on the toss. Sometimes, it even lands on edge!
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:21   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
If you ask whether a specific product works, you can't substitute 'all allegedly similar products' for the specific product. Do they both use the same grade of copper? Same shape and size particles? Same alloy? Same epoxy matrix? Any additives? I don't know, and would rather not confuse the issue of one specific product, with the larger question of whether bottom paints work at all.
When comparing two items you can get specific to the Nth degree and of course there will be differences. In the marine industry however, the term "copper-loaded epoxy" encompasses a number of products and Copperpoxy and Copper Coat both fall into that category. To have a meaningful discussion you must be willing to accept the categorization. And as a professional hull cleaner, I can say unequivocally that I have never found any copper-loaded epoxy that I have ever come across to be an effective anti fouling here in the Bay Area.

I'm not sure I understand the second part of your statement. I don't believe the efficacy of anti fouling paints in general (BTW, copper-loaded epoxies are not technically "paint") is being called into question. Or are you referring to copper-loaded epoxies alone?
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:27   #52
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What is the best anti-fouling?

I too asked the same question back in 2000 after anti fouling our large catamaran every other year for 10 years.
After a review in Practical Boat Owner we successfully used Blake’s Tiger Cruiser as being cost effective in north European waters.

However after a retarded helper hired by the boatyard deeply penetrated gelcoat we had to sandblast and do a full epoxy treatment with six coats of GelShield 200 after a winter’s dryout.

We decided to look into a 10-year coating and were attracted to Copperbot. Wessex Resins UK makes the product and at the time in 2003 had users with 16 years use without recoating. They were also agents for West Epoxy we used for fillers and bondings in preparation of hull.

Copperbot has now been renamed Coppercoat.

It comes as a two tin epoxy and a packet of ultrafine pure copper powder. The epoxy is quite unlike any other we have used. It is creamy in colour and one can even add a small amount of freshwater to dilute the mix. We rolled it on.

Coppercoat give detailed instructions on preparation, applying, mixing etc. Since they do not make West epoxy they would give no guarantee it would adhere to West epoxy. Equally they could think of no reason why it would not.

Having read accounts by other satisfied users we were prepared to take the risk. It could not be worse than having some incompetent damage the hull again or having my aged self and wife re-do it ourselves with traditional anti-fouling.

It is a water-soluble epoxy which slowly dissolves leaving fresh copper powder exposed. For this reason it is important to stir the copper into suspension every time when putting it into the roller tray for application. It is also important not to mix too large a quantity at a time. We found it possible in weather above 17 degrees C to apply two coats in a day The calculations given by Coppercoat for estimating the area for 5 coats gave us in practice 6 coats.

Also because the copper is in powder form there is no metallic conductivity possible. Therefore other metals such as prop, prop shaft, rudder mounts or saildrive legs are electrically isolated from Coppercoat. That is why it can be used on metal hulls.

We were so stressed before the launch we did not rub it down as advised. Now it has been five years on a drying mooring in salt water and cruised during the summers. There is absolutely no weed anywhere on the hull except for the un coated black painted stainless steel propellers. They had green algae There was a hand print size patch of tiny barnacles on the bottom of one rudder skeg this year but that was easily removed one low neap tide. For five years use it is simply astounding. There is plenty of life around the boat. After cleaning and inspection my wife and I collected a delicious meal of cockles and mussels around the boat.

We had a lot of interest in our boatyard since 2003. I noticed that almost every other boat when hauled out has put on Coppercoat since we did ours.

As far as my wife and I are concerned Coppercoat is a resounding success.

I agree with our colleague in Amstelveen. We know from personal experience it lasts for at least 5 years without visible sign of wear. I hope I last as well.
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Old 02-11-2008, 19:40   #53
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Thanks for the feedback, Mr M.
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Old 03-11-2008, 02:54   #54
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Greetings, and WELCOME aboard Mr Micawber.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Micawber
... Wessex Resins UK makes the product ... They were also agents for West Epoxy ...
According to the Coppercoat - multiseason antifouling. 10 years protection hard wearing copper filled epoxy resin copper antifoul antifouling. website:

"... First marketed under the brand name Copperbot by C-Defence International Ltd, this revolutionary coating has been soley manufactured and distributed by Aquarius Marine Coatings Ltd since January 1998, under the name CopperCoat..."

The Wessex Resins & Adhesives, Home Page website makes no mention of CopperCoat.
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Old 03-11-2008, 10:49   #55
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Thanks for checking the data.

I spoke to Aquarius makers of Coppercoat as stated above.

Wessex Resins did market Copperbot for a couple of years during which Aquarius marketed their product as Coppercoat for patent reasons. It was during this period I bought my original batch. I did buy a small batch for another job in 2005 and it came from Aquarius at the same phone number as my original Copperbot!

Apparently it was to do with the original patent being held by two brothers who died somewhere in this period. Wessex did not continue with the Copperbot business. Later the controlling widow sold full rights to Aquarius.

So there was a great deal of confusion as to who actually marketed the original product.

That is the reason Wessex Resins & Adhesives makes no mention of of Coppercoat. They only sold the original Copperbot for about two years.

Thanks for sorting this out.

I was told Coppercoat is marketed in Australia as Coppershield. You can find all the details on Coppercoat.com

Also there is an 8 year test published my Yachting Monthly on the same website.

I actually phoned to ask if I could apply Coppercoat to a stainless steel propeller.

The answer was a resounding NO!

The reason given was that stainless steel degasses when it rotates. This distorts the impervious coating and greatly impairs traction.

When the irate boat owner stops and inspects the props he can see nothing unusual and remains bamboozled. Apparently the gas is reabsorbed.

So the Coppercoat stops growth on the steel propeller but the propeller loses performance. Don't use it.

Ordinary antifouling is porous and does not suffer from this problem.

Hope this helps others
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Old 04-11-2008, 18:03   #56
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Hi
I saw a guy in Teignmouth (South UK) re applying copperbot this year, he says it is very good this is the first time he's had to do it for 10 years, he's had virtually a clean bottom the whole time, he sometimes gets some slime that just wipes off.
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:43   #57
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Hi Jamie
I wonder if he was actually using Coppercoat rather than Copperbot. I think the name change came around 2002-3. If it were Copperbot it would probably be out of date. The shelf life when opened is about 12 months I believe.

A lot of us in UK still call it Copperbot because that is the original name. The dealer then has to reassure us it is the same thing but now called Coppercoat.

Thanks for confirming the UK experience with Coppercoat.
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Old 05-11-2008, 16:07   #58
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Thinking back I think you are right I think he may have said the name had changed sorry
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:02   #59
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Re: coppercoat antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
If I hear these comments I should not be using Coppercoat but the major mistake is made with the application I have been a satisfied user for almost 10 years and I know of yachts that have been given the treatment 14 years ago and it still works
After applying the 5 layers of coppercoat we first sand the surface with 320 and after that with 1200 to expose the copper to the salt water. I have taken one of our cats out of the water that is 4 years old and has had coppercoat since new and the growt was very limited and easy to remove.We did not have to sand the boat yet since the copper was still working.
We are very happy with the product and I can recomment it to everybody that has a yacht in the salt water.
do you know any one who has use this product on a wooden boat. I have an 65 year old sail boat, and I haul it out every year because of the winters here in New Jersey. I wondered how well the coppercoat held up to the srinking and swelling of a wood boat.

Thank you
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:15   #60
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Re: coppercoat antifouling

Seastriker,bear in mind that the CopperCoat (brand) product used in the Seychelles will no be the same product as the Copperpoxy that you might buy in NJ. One satisfied user on high speed powerboats in warm waters with one product, is hardly an endorsement for a different product on a different type boat (comparably slow sailboat) half a world away. With four years of no further praise from anyone in between.

That's an expensive experiment, unless epoxy sealing your wood hull appeals to you.
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