Composting Head for Liveaboards ?

[Reiheld]

Arggh. Can't type on a phone. The one gallon milk or water jug with screw-on lid, works for us, I meant to say.
Also, C-Head 's design is such that a urinary overflow doesn't wind up in the sawdust, I think, but in the watertight cabinet, making clean up a cinch. We just check the pee level before bedtime, and swap out as necessary to avoid that chore.

[AmericanVagrant]

Originally Posted by Reiheld

Check out the C-Head web site while you're at it. Sandy offers a good bit larger urine reservoir kit. I'm not tempted, because that works so well for the two of us. (We just screw the lid on the containers we remove, set it aside out of the way, pop in a clean empty milk jug, which will easily buy us another day. Of course, we need to stop and refuel every so often, so emptying and rinsing the gallon disposable containers is easy. As noted above, the poop isnt, or hasn't been, so far, a problem. A month or so, I'd guess, but really,

Good point about a system that uses readily available components rather than proprietary stuff. If the Nature's Head used milk jugs I'd just keep a few aboard for swapping once full. Unfortunately the bottles cost $40/each. Given their construction and low production numbers I suppose this is a fair price, but doesn't change the fact that two spare bottles runs nearly $100, and their awkward shape isn't exactly space efficient.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by AmericanVagrant

Good point about a system that uses readily available components rather than proprietary stuff.

There's something to be said for making your own out of five-gallon buckets and laundry detergent bottles.

[Reiheld]

Y'all go for that home-made solution. I attempted, using bedside commode, $3, was not impressed with the result. $500 purpose-built, well-engineered C-Head worth every dime.

[AmericanVagrant]

Originally Posted by Jdege

There's something to be said for making your own out of five-gallon buckets and laundry detergent bottles.

No doubt, initially I was planning to do this. As my intended departure date neared I conceded to purchasing one so that I can focus on other things. Certainly though, if someone isn't in a time crunch it could be worth the time to construct.

As Reiheld said, it's possible that even if I went this route, I'd find my engineering to be inadequate.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by AmericanVagrant

As Reiheld said, it's possible that even if I went this route, I'd find my engineering to be inadequate.

I've never seen a toilet, in any environment, from any source, where I didn't, at least once, find the engineering inadequate.

Except for the old one-holer back behind my grandfather's shop. It always worked just fine. (Except for the wasps.)

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by AmericanVagrant

I have had a Nature's Head aboard with 5 adults on a 3 day cruise to Catalina and I gotta say, it's not the dookie that becomes problematic, it's the urine. With a bunch of young guys all drinking beer after beer after beer, the bottle required emptying once or twice a day and it still overflowed a couple times.

It’s kinda hard to blame NH for your problems here AV. If you use any tool incorrectly you’re going to get bad results. There are clear instructions, and basic common sense, on emptying the urine bottle. And as you know, it’s quite easy to do.

In the over five years we’ve had our head we’ve never once overflowed the urine bottle. Becomes second nature to take a quick look at the levels before making an addition. If it’s too high, then dump it first. With the 2+ gallon on our NH, there’s a wide margin of error.

If I were you, I’d simply ask guests to follow instructions, instead of plumbing a whole new system … but that’s just me.

BTW, these composters are really only designed to accommodate two, perhaps three crew members. They can manage more people for short periods, but if my crew size was routinely more than three I’d look to a standard marine head as the best solution.

[bletso]

With a couple of guys the solution is simple; each guy gets his own recycled liquid detergent container that he is responsible for. They have wide heads so they can't miss, well shouldn't anyway. Stored in a cupboard in the head.

[AmericanVagrant]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s kinda hard to blame NH for your problems here AV. If you use any tool incorrectly you’re going to get bad results. There are clear instructions, and basic common sense, on emptying the urine bottle. And as you know, it’s quite easy to do.

In the over five years we’ve had our head we’ve never once overflowed the urine bottle. Becomes second nature to take a quick look at the levels before making an addition. If it’s too high, then dump it first. With the 2+ gallon on our NH, there’s a wide margin of error.

If I were you, I’d simply ask guests to follow instructions, instead of plumbing a whole new system … but that’s just me.

BTW, these composters are really only designed to accommodate two, perhaps three crew members. They can manage more people for short periods, but if my crew size was routinely more than three I’d look to a standard marine head as the best solution.

I agree, I don't blame Nature's Head in the least. I understood what the product was when I purchased it and as far as I know it is functioning as designed. That's not to say it's design doesn't have limitations.

For my application, re-routing is too easy and cheap to bother with anything else. Furthermore, the space available for the head on my new boat would need to be modified for use with the liquids bottle, whereas if I just remove the bottle and the containment shroud around it (whatever that would be referred to), it fits.

I could train all my crew to monitor and then dump the head when necessary (which requires I stop what I'm doing and take a trip to shore in the dinghy), but if that hassle can be avoided by adding extra capacity then all the better.

[NevisDog]

We tried out an AirHead while touring around boatyards and yacht brokers in our caravan, with the intention of installing it aboard as soon as we found our sailboat. No smell, no bugs ... but we had so much trouble emptying the solids each month that we decided it would be a dead loss on a cruising boat. I could see myself accidentally dropping the whole thing overboard while hanging over the rail prodding at the solids and trying to empty the darned thing. We used wood shavings in ever-increasing amounts in an attempt to prevent the whole solid mess from turning into cement. Emptying this solid mass while ashore was a nightmare - goodness knows how we could have done it at sea. So now we have a simple portable toilet for use inshore (easily emptied at sea, or at the marina but choose one with a short hose attachment to prevent splash-back) plus a straight flush sea-toilet for daily use at sea, no holding tank. I agree with those who never wish to encounter another blocked holding tank - that has to be the worst option.

Perhaps someone can tell us why our wood shavings mixture turned into cement-like sticky mud when stirred daily? Others don't seem to have had this problem.

[Mike OReilly]

NevisDog, I’ve never used wood shavings, and it’s not recommended (at least not for my Nature’s Head … Air Head is basically the same beast). Peat or coir are the two materials most used and recommended.

From your description it sounds like the material is getting too wet, and then adhering to itself to form the large mass. I can see how wood shavings would more likely do that (which is probably why they aren’t recommended). You want something that remains airy so it can dry out; like coir.

Emptying is still not a fun task. I simply tip mine into a garbage bag, and then dump it wherever — mostly in the forest, sometime in the garbage. Have never yet dumped overboard, but that would be pretty easy from the plastic bag.

[Simply Sailing]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

We tried out an AirHead while touring around boatyards and yacht brokers in our caravan, with the intention of installing it aboard as soon as we found our sailboat. No smell, no bugs ... but we had so much trouble emptying the solids each month that we decided it would be a dead loss on a cruising boat. I could see myself accidentally dropping the whole thing overboard while hanging over the rail prodding at the solids and trying to empty the darned thing. We used wood shavings in ever-increasing amounts in an attempt to prevent the whole solid mess from turning into cement. Emptying this solid mass while ashore was a nightmare - goodness knows how we could have done it at sea. So now we have a simple portable toilet for use inshore (easily emptied at sea, or at the marina but choose one with a short hose attachment to prevent splash-back) plus a straight flush sea-toilet for daily use at sea, no holding tank. I agree with those who never wish to encounter another blocked holding tank - that has to be the worst option.

Perhaps someone can tell us why our wood shavings mixture turned into cement-like sticky mud when stirred daily? Others don't seem to have had this problem.

I can imagine that trying to empty the whole thing overboard would not be pleasant, as you mentioned. Even if we are offshore and can dump the contents overboard, we would never do it directly. We empty it into a black bag and then dump the contents of the bag overboard. MUCH easier, and if you accidently drop the bag you can probably go back and get it. Dropping $1000 piece of equipment overboard, however, would really piss me off.

I've never heard of anyone using wood shavings. I can imagine that they would compact, though, like you encountered. There needs to be LOTS of air flow to encourage the growth of aerobic bacteria (NOT anaerobic. The bacteria that grow in the absence of oxygen are the ones that cause stinky holding tanks. Aerobic activity does not smell.) We use coco bricks that we rehydrate. They are smaller than a brick and 1 1/2 of them lasts 4-6 weeks. Bought in bulk, they're fairly economical, too.

Air Head is pretty specific about the medium to be used, for this very reason. It's a shame to have a product not used correctly and then blamed for not working. Installed and maintained correctly, they're great. I've used one for 7 years and the only time we've ever had a problem is when we didn't follow manufacturer suggestions. Just my two cents.

[Reiheld]

We do use wood shavings and sawdust (cypress) at the moment, because that is what is readily to hand after a major paneling project. We find we have no excess moisture in our C-Head solids bucket. We have also used coir satisfactorily. We avoid using peat because of the potential insect problem. Dumping the bucket is easy with this head, takes mere seconds with no disassembly challenge. Lifting the discrete lumps out like cleaning a cat box is also simple. So, since I can turn any small chore into a major undertaking through sheer incompetence, and find this job foolproof, I have to ask, might the problem be poor urine aim? If your male crewmembers insist on standing, facing the wall to pee, I understand why there's a mess. The bowl is too shallow, not designed for that rear-facing approach, because the pee-collecting outlet aims forward. Because, guess where the urine goes? Right into your drying medium. Ugh. Sorry, guys. Likewise, if female users aren't getting the hang of directing the stream well forward, there you go. Instant muck in the poop chamber.
So, sit. Every time. And pay attention. And use enough drying medium to desiccate the solid waste.

[Reiheld]

One more thought: is/was your composting head ventilated? We ran a 11/4" PVC pipe from the back of the C-head sternward a few feet, through a hole high on the outside bulkhead, and we find that there's enough gentle passive ventilation to help keep the wood shavings dry and pleasant. (It helped that we were finishing the interior ourselves, and had no tearing-apart to do.) No stink at all, by the way.

[Mike OReilly]

I really think you've got a moisture and/or ventilation problem. I think wood shavings will make it harder to have the bed properly ventilated. And if, as Reiheld suggests, there is additional moisture getting in due to poor urine aim, there would be no way the head could work.

I suggest you switch to coir, make sure no one is peeing in the main tank, and ensure you're getting good ventilation.