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Old 23-02-2012, 10:18   #16
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
One of the things my insurance company insisted on as a condition of cverage was a marine CO detector because we have a propane stove. I aked about the engine, and they said diesels produce so little CO that it was not worth worrying about. I would imagine you would smell a diesel exhasut leak anyway. Oh, and the underwriter was very specific - the CO detector had to meet the UL1524 marine standard - no household detectors. Apparently they work differently - the marine detectors are triggered by average concentrations over time and the houshold detectors trip on detection of a set concentration. I was curious, so I mounted one of each side by side. The household detector tripped often on transient detections. Sometimes all it took was a gasoline powered boat passing close by when the ports were open. If that were the only detector I had, I would have disabled it in short order because it was so annoying. Frequent false alarms and the likelyhood that it will be disabled is probably the main reason the 1524 standard exists. Just my 2 cents. YMMV

Which CO sensor model did you end up getting?
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Old 23-02-2012, 11:32   #17
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

I'll look when I get to the boat this weekend.
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Old 23-02-2012, 18:30   #18
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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We use a Kidde battery type which is approved for home use but given the average home is a bigger space than our boat. Given the cost (or relative lack of it) if it needs replacing I'll do so with the same model. I managed to 'acquire' some CO test gas and it certainly worked when exposed to that. It has never activated due to exposure to cleaning materials.
That's what I use. An Atomic 4 with no PCV in a following wind can stink up the cabin quickly, but I can't recall it ever going off.

So I lit a few matches near it. It went off, all right.
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Old 23-02-2012, 18:31   #19
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

Here's a good little article from Southern Boating magazine. According to this publication, there are two choices when it comes to marine CO detectors: Xintex and MTI, and both are UL 2034.

Southern Boating – The South's Largest Boating Magazine Engine Room

As Maine89 said, the UL 1524 standard that Gord so kindly dredged up does not seem to be the one that the two makers of marine CO detectors are operating by (at least at present).

I myself am currently looking at various CO detector options. As much as I would like to buy just one marine CO detector and have one household CO detector as a backup, I think the smart thing to do is to have two marine CO detectors. Having one of the household ones with the digital readout might be good just to have an indication of the PPM, but it seems that two marine detectors would be the smart move. Moreover, it seems even smarter to have those two marine detectors on separate circuits. Xintex has the model that allows for two or more detectors to be joined in a series. I'd prefer to have two separate detectors.

Roscoe
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Old 23-02-2012, 18:52   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndance II

Unless it is under heavy load, a diesel puts out little to no carbon monoxide. Really!
Speaking from personal experience, diesel emits CO- even at idle. It doesn't make as much as a gas engine. Diesel exhaust is also a suspected carcinogen.
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Old 23-02-2012, 19:30   #21
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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Unless it is under heavy load, a diesel puts out little to no carbon monoxide. Really!
No. That's a dangerous myth.
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Old 23-02-2012, 19:36   #22
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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The smart CO sensors are capable of ignoring bogus conditions but at the same time alerting if low levels have been around too long. There's more to it than just "beep like hell if any CO is detected".
Agreed. On a previous boat with a more primitive CO sensor, I once had the sensor go off when a boat ran its diesel generator upwind of me in a marina. It was a hot day, and I had multiple open hatches on my boat at the time. Hard to imagine I was in any danger at that point.

As far as the original question is concerned, I prefer a sensor that is hard-wired into the 12v system. Nothing worse than having a neighbor's 9v battery go bad when he's going to be off the boat for two weeks. The whole marina gets to listen to his CO monitor chirp until the battery finally dies.

Not a great way to make friends.
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Old 23-02-2012, 20:00   #23
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

I have found them to be heavily unreliable. Did Practical Sailor ever test them? How about Consumer Reports?
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Old 23-02-2012, 20:34   #24
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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No. That's a dangerous myth.
I would be happy to retract my comment if you could provide proof of the myth.
MSHA and the entire underground mining industry would await your findings.
Why didn't David M's detector respond to his diesel engine?
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Old 23-02-2012, 20:46   #25
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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Originally Posted by davisr View Post
Here's a good little article from Southern Boating magazine. According to this publication, there are two choices when it comes to marine CO detectors: Xintex and MTI, and both are UL 2034.

Southern Boating The South's Largest Boating Magazine Engine Room

As Maine89 said, the UL 1524 standard that Gord so kindly dredged up does not seem to be the one that the two makers of marine CO detectors are operating by (at least at present).

I myself am currently looking at various CO detector options. As much as I would like to buy just one marine CO detector and have one household CO detector as a backup, I think the smart thing to do is to have two marine CO detectors. Having one of the household ones with the digital readout might be good just to have an indication of the PPM, but it seems that two marine detectors would be the smart move. Moreover, it seems even smarter to have those two marine detectors on separate circuits. Xintex has the model that allows for two or more detectors to be joined in a series. I'd prefer to have two separate detectors.

Roscoe
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Thanks davisr, it's good to know what boating manufacturers are choosing. Unfortunately with my work I always worry about articles in magazines as I know how frequently they solicit article sponsorship, but it is what it is.
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Old 23-02-2012, 21:08   #26
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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Originally Posted by Vyndance II View Post
I would be happy to retract my comment if you could provide proof of the myth.
MSHA and the entire underground mining industry would await your findings.
Why didn't David M's detector respond to his diesel engine?
Honestly, I could care less whether you retract your comment. But the forum should know that CO is present in diesel exhaust.

Here, educate yourself: 19881130 Potential Carcinogenicity of Diesel Exhaust

Diesel Exhaust: Partial List of Chemicals Associated with Diesel Exhaust

11/08/1985 - Hazardous components of diesel engine emissions.

http://boatsafetynet.com/boat-safety...ide-poison.htm
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Old 23-02-2012, 21:53   #27
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
Which CO sensor model did you end up getting?

My experience has been that when there's a specific marine version of something there's usually a very good reason. you want to be able to count on your CO detector.
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Old 24-02-2012, 18:34   #28
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

Maine89,

I hear what you're saying about magazines propping up products for the sake of advertising dollars. Have you discovered anything else about the ProTech detector that you mentioned in your earlier posting?

Amazon.com: ProTech 7035 Lithium Battery Powered Carbon Monoxide Detector with Digital Display and Memory: Home Improvement

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Old 24-02-2012, 18:42   #29
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

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Maine89,

I hear what you're saying about magazines propping up products for the sake of advertising dollars. Have you discovered anything else about the ProTech detector that you mentioned in your earlier posting?

Amazon.com: ProTech 7035 Lithium Battery Powered Carbon Monoxide Detector with Digital Display and Memory: Home Improvement

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I haven't been able to find anything else out but I would love if we determined that one was as good as the other "marine grade" devices. It is UL 2034 and otherwise seems the same. Perhaps one of those for the battery backup and LCD and then one of the others Fireboy/Safe-T for redundancy? If the life expectancy is 5 years for the devices, the two would cost you $2.5/month to have. I think I can justify that
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Old 24-02-2012, 19:12   #30
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Re: Carbon Monoxide (Lots of research, no solid answers)

Maine89,

Your proposed set-up makes sense, and it's one that I might just follow. There's a very active member of the Ericson Yacht Owners forum who installed these same ProTech detectors two years ago. I've tried to reply to his thread several times this evening to ask him for an updated report, but apparently there is some unusual glitch that is preventing me from respon ding. Perhaps it's because I'm on a different computer. At any rate, here's the thread.

CO detector surprise

You might be interested to know what I discovered when I stopped by the local West Marine this afternoon. As many people have said on many different threads, CO detectors only have a 5 year life-span. So walk to the safety aisle at WM and pull each of the MTI, Inc. CO detectors (60-541) off the rack. All three of them had packages that described the 5 year limit, and all three of them had detectors inside that indicated they expired in 2013. The one Xintex CMD-4MR that was on the rack was almost one year old. Looks to me like they don't sell a whole lot of these marine detectors. I pointed this out to the associate and he removed the MTI detectors from the rack, but not the Xintex. Just a cautionary tale. Makes you wonder what you'd get if you ordered one of these from a online source.

Roscoe
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