Cabin Heaters: Which is Best and Why?

[Sandero]

I can barely hear the Espar Airtronic 4.... no louder than the wind in the rigging...

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Sandero

I can barely hear the Espar Airtronic 4.... no louder than the wind in the rigging...

Not neccessarily the best analogy, sometime the wind can scream thru one's rigging.


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[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Not neccessarily the best analogy, sometime the wind can scream thru one's rigging.


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Let's be real here.... I have used the Espar for 25 yrs... my bed is literally on top of it. You CANNOT hear the air from the grilles... You can hear it for a minute when it fires up... and then it get very very quiet.

There are normally sounds when on the boat... waves lapping the hull... and the flag flappping.. or some rigging sounds. MOST environmental sound is much louder than the Airtronic. That's a fact.

I don't sell or work for the company... I am just reporting my experience with these units over 25 yrs.

[Laksmi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know that unit specifically, but it is a large hydronic furnace which I would guess probably works like all of the rest of the hydronic units -- that is, requires regular professional maintenance, can have expensive breakdowns, needs electrical power (that is, will drain your batteries), but should give you the best distributed heat you could possibly have on a larger boat.

Thank you Dockhead. If the boat pass the survey, I will see if I keep it or go for something more econo.
Michel

[Laksmi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know that unit specifically, but it is a large hydronic furnace which I would guess probably works like all of the rest of the hydronic units -- that is, requires regular professional maintenance, can have expensive breakdowns, needs electrical power (that is, will drain your batteries), but should give you the best distributed heat you could possibly have on a larger boat.

Hello Dockhead.
Do you know about Kabola hydronic system and are they expensive as well. I think We have the Hurricane Hydronic factory here in BC.
What would be your preferred heating system. We wont go blue ocean cruising but will be living aboard all year round here on Vancouver Island, BC, Canada.
Cruising all the bays, etc... 5-6 months a year and at the marina in winter.
Michel

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Let's be real here.... I have used the Espar for 25 yrs... my bed is literally on top of it. You CANNOT hear the air from the grilles... You can hear it for a minute when it fires up... and then it get very very quiet.

There are normally sounds when on the boat... waves lapping the hull... and the flag flappping.. or some rigging sounds. MOST environmental sound is much louder than the Airtronic. That's a fact.

I don't sell or work for the company... I am just reporting my experience with these units over 25 yrs.

I have no beef with Espar. I was attempting to humorously point out that your analogy could be interpreted as a negative which contradicting your statement that they are pretty quiet.


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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Laksmi

Thank you Dockhead. If the boat pass the survey, I will see if I keep it or go for something more econo.
Michel

If it's working, leave it alone -- it's the best possible system for a large boat. I don't know what you mean by "something more econo"; you won't save fuel by going to a smaller one unless you're willing to freeze. Even if you could save fuel, the savings would never pay for themselves. Installing a hydronic system is pretty $$$.

[Laksmi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If it's working, leave it alone -- it's the best possible system for a large boat. I don't know what you mean by "something more econo"; you won't save fuel by going to a smaller one unless you're willing to freeze. Even if you could save fuel, the savings would never pay for themselves. Installing a hydronic system is pretty $$$.

Thank you a lot
Michel

[Laksmi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know that unit specifically, but it is a large hydronic furnace which I would guess probably works like all of the rest of the hydronic units -- that is, requires regular professional maintenance, can have expensive breakdowns, needs electrical power (that is, will drain your batteries), but should give you the best distributed heat you could possibly have on a larger boat.

Hello Dockhead. The DeFever survey did not pass. So we are having a survey on a 49' wood Alaskan with a Kabola hydronic system. Do you know about those heaters?

[herculesboat]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Let's be real here.... I have used the Espar for 25 yrs... my bed is literally on top of it. You CANNOT hear the air from the grilles... You can hear it for a minute when it fires up... and then it get very very quiet.

There are normally sounds when on the boat... waves lapping the hull... and the flag flappping.. or some rigging sounds. MOST environmental sound is much louder than the Airtronic. That's a fact.

I don't sell or work for the company... I am just reporting my experience with these units over 25 yrs.

I agree about it

[sailor1924]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There is no ideal cabin heating system. Every one of them has significant disadvantages. You have to set priorities and make up your own mind.

Webasto & Eberspaecher (Espar) hydronic -- plusses are -- efficient transfer of heat all around the boat, and will heat water. No soot on deck as the exhaust is forcibly blown out the transom. Minuses: expensive, complicated to install, unreliable, requires professional service so no good for cruising in remote areas. Very noisy from the outside, much more so than a generator.

Webasto & Eberspaecher (Espar) air heating -- plusses are -- simpler than hydronic. Minus: limited distribution, noisy inside, will not heat water. Otherwise all plusses and minuses like above.

Bulkhead mount drip heater -- plusses are -- totally simple, no electrical power required, simple installation except for flue, professional service not required so good for cruising in remote areas. Minuses -- single point heat source so effectively warms only one space, soot on deck, must cut a hole in your deck for the flue.

So pick your disadvantages!

I agree with Dockhead's list of the advantages and disadvantages. I find that all the different types of heaters present differing opportunities to exercise creative problem solving. After training many years ago as a service rep for a computer controlled electronic ignition diesel fired hydronic unit, that never really worked in the marine environment and was subsequently withdrawn from the market, I've opted for diesel drip feed for my own boats.

And I agree with Dockheads analysis of the drawbacks for a drip feed.
However I've found that they can all be overcome with varying degrees of difficulty and effort.
Here are several things I've done to expand the utility of a drip feed and to overcome the problems of high winds, soot on deck and to spread the heat.

I've installed a Vac-u-stack smoke head which has kept the stove burning in 45 knot gusts without blow back or blow out from downdrafting and completely eliminated soot on deck.

I've used more then one way to distribute heat from point of origin:
air to air heat exchanger using insulation enclosing the flue pipe with a small muffin fan to push air through the enclosure;
small radiator fins on the flue pipe to capture waste heat again pushed by a small fan;
a water coil placed inside the fire box with radiators in the more remote areas of the boat, the convective water flow assisted by a small aquarium pump to circulate.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat the afore a just a few.
Below is the fin radiation, a very simple and inexpensive add on.

[Sandero]

Of course to respond to this one would have had to have had multiple experiences with different heaters and different boats. I doubt anyone on this forum does except perhaps for a heating sub contractor who does all types of heating.

Having said that.... I have only experience with the Espar forced air diesel fired system in my boat. It works a charm. It is not the least bit noisy... It heats the boat quickly and evenly and supply dry warm air in a normal humid to very humid environment. Can't beat that. The fuel consumption is 1/10 gal per hr which is not very much. I have hot exhaust from the transom but no soot. The ducts were easy to run but the V has no heat as it's used mostly for a closet catch all. Guests might sleep in the V in the summer and then there is no need for heat. I can shut each outlet grille and that puts more flow into the remaining open grilles which swivel and tilt.

It's pretty invisible and getting hot water from hydronic is not something I need. I have enough from the normal engine running.

You asked. I answered.

[Cheechako]

I've had experience with the Espar, Webasto, Force Ten propane, Force Ten Kerosene, Shipmate, Toyoset forced air and a diesel drip style. I found the Webasto to be trouble free, the Espar to be not as trouble free, the Force Ten to put out minimal heat, and the diesel drip (High Seas) to be dirty and very hard to light and get burning well.
I would take the Webasto as #1

[cortezsailor]

I had a friend who years ago had a wood bring stove of some type but burnt a charcoal in it instead of wood, if I remember correctly one stove full kept it warm for a good 5 hours . I'm sure it was costly but I live with only wood heat in my home and nothing is better on a cold rainy west coast night .
I have the largest Wallis Heater , forced air , diesel . I spend more time out on our boat in the colder months then the warmer and we have gone out in minus 10 C and were comfortable , with slippers and a blanket . Overall is works well in anything to about the freezing Mark . My biggest complaint is how loud it is inside when the fan is on high , that being said its so damn quiet outside the boat , no heater except wood is as quiet . I find with a fixed wall unit people hover close to it making the rest of the boat fell cold when they are away from that spot. Another advantage of the Wallis is the ability to run only the fan on hot days which keeps air circulating , uses about 2 AH


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[SaucySailoress]

So... we do NOT need heat on our boat - we have no intention of ever leaving the tropics in it! BUT, at the moment we're in the UK and travelling a lot in the campervan. And it's winter here. And cold at night when the engine (and therefore heater) is off. Not a problem for sleeping we have doubled up the duvets.... but in the morning it's a bit uncomfortable getting dressed.

Has anyone ever used a 12v heater like this in a small space?

I was thinking of wiring it directly into the housekeeping battery... and connecting a switch so we can use it while stationary. Any feedback?



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