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Old 13-12-2013, 12:02   #31
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

If you're asking me, I have to say that I am not a big fan of Seahawk products. I have never come across one that did not have a better performing counterpart made by a different manufacturer. That being said, my hands-on cleaning experience is limited to the San Francisco Bay Area. You may have a different result in the low-fouling waters in your area.
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:17   #32
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
If you're asking me, I have to say that I am not a big fan of Seahawk products. I have never come across one that did not have a better performing counterpart made by a different manufacturer. That being said, my hands-on cleaning experience is limited to the San Francisco Bay Area. You may have a different result in the low-fouling waters in your area.

Ah ok, well maybe I better steer away from Seahawk then since I will be sailing to the Philippines. Thanks for the input!
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:29   #33
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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Thats because , most antifouling , especially those with Tin turned out to be very nasty environmentally. Certainly for me, the environment comes way before the cleanliness of a bunch of yachties "bums" !!!

dave
Dave, with only three posts a lot of folks might not think you have a lot of credibility. You might want to tread a little more lightly in your first posts.


As for the substance of your posts I would be interested in any real studies about how "nasty environmentally" the tin based paints are. My understanding is that the large commercial boats and ships all around the world use some type of tin based paint and it can be purchased in the US for ships (as opposed to boats).

One of the reasons a lot of us go cruising is to get away from what I will the dirty air and dirty water in many places close to home, even with stricter environmental controls in the US.

So can anyone provide any links to scientific tests showing tin based paint are worse than some of the other copper based paints, or is this just common knowledge with no real tests to back it up.
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:33   #34
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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Dave,
Dave has 9K posts and 3 pictures??

Here's the wiki on tributyl tin. Maybe you can Google more for yourself

Tributyltin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:39   #35
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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My understanding is that the large commercial boats and ships all around the world use some type of tin based paint and it can be purchased in the US for ships.
You are misinformed. There has been a world-wide ban on tBt anti fouling paints that most seafaring nations (including the U.S.) have adhered to since 2008. No commercial or private vessels of any kind are allowed to use it or enter territorial waters with it nor can you buy it in this country. The U.S. Navy is not bound by any civilian paint regulation but they don't use it either.
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:06   #36
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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Dave has 9K posts and 3 pictures??

Here's the wiki on tributyl tin. Maybe you can Google more for yourself

Tributyltin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My bad about the number of posts.

But your link is not really an answer to my question and I would bet my google kung fu is better than yours.

The question is not about tin based paints being bad, rather about how bad tin based paints are compared to other things.

If you want to try your skill at google it is easy to find documentation that two states on the West coast have effectively banned copper based bottom paints, and one imposes an up to $US10,000 a day fine for violations.

So the question still stands, is tin based bottom paint worse than other choices for bottom paint; and if it is worse how much worse.

Woops, not two states, only one state and one city/harbor in another state. Sorry.
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:17   #37
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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So the question still stands, is tin based bottom paint worse than other choices for bottom paint; and if it is worse how much worse.
Why does anybody else have to do the legwork for you? Why don't you do some research and prove us wrong?
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:31   #38
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

tomfl

if you'd troubled to read the wiki you will note an international ban on TBT. Let me rephrase: I think it speaks volumes that there is an international ban on the product. In light of that, if nothing else (and fstbttms is right - go do your own research), that says a lot for just how nasty TBT is.
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:42   #39
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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Why does anybody else have to do the legwork for you? Why don't you do some research and prove us wrong?
While I respect your real world knowledge and experience your lack of knowledge in basic logic is disturbing.

The burden of proof always lies with those who assert, not with those who question.

I never claimed tin based paint was not environmentally harmful. Rather I asked how harmful it was compared to copper based paint which is also known to be harmful.

Before I retired I had a long history of consulting with environmental agencies in three states about mitigation issues. The bottom line is that humans, especially when there are too many humans, are environmentally harmful. Lots of things humans use or do really degrade the environment and the only real solution is to try and mitigate the damage.

I am not claiming tin based paint should be legal, only that it is fairly easy to buy it outside the US. It is possible it would be more environmentally friendly to strictly control it rather than prohibit it. Kinda like pot is not legal in the US but it is fairly easy to buy pot.
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:43   #40
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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tomfl

if you'd troubled to read the wiki you will note an international ban on TBT. Let me rephrase: I think it speaks volumes that there is an international ban on the product. In light of that, if nothing else (and fstbttms is right - go do your own research), that says a lot for just how nasty TBT is.
If you had troubled to read this, or multiple other, threads at CF and elsewhere it is clear that tin based paint is easy to find outside the US. As I told fstbttms pot is banned in the US but any junior high school student can find it.
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:53   #41
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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If you had troubled to read this, or multiple other, threads at CF and elsewhere it is clear that tin based paint is easy to find outside the US. As I told fstbttms pot is banned in the US but any junior high school student can find it.

red herring?

I didn't make any comments in regards where or how easy TBT is to get. Don't try to confuse the issue. Your question was 'how nasty is it compared to other paints?' and I referenced you a wiki which included some research published references.
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:59   #42
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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Ameron ABC3. A commercial ablative that does a great job and costs less than $100 a gallon.
Last year when I bought it, it had gone up to $120 a gal. Few years ago it used to be $80 a gal. As good as CSC etc.
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Old 13-12-2013, 14:03   #43
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

Anybody who has ever used a tin-based anti fouling paint will tell you that it is orders of magnitude more effective at killing fouling organisms than a copper-based paint. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to extrapolate the answer to your frivolous question from that. This isn't a court of law so your "burden of proof" homily is pretty ridiculous. If you are looking for justification to use an illegal paint, I'm sure you'll find some whether or not we waste any more time and electrons trying to convince you otherwise.
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Old 13-12-2013, 14:06   #44
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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red herring?

I didn't make any comments in regards where or how easy TBT is to get. Don't try to confuse the issue. Your question was 'how nasty is it compared to other paints?' and I referenced you a wiki which included some research published references.
OK, lets say I am slow and not able to comprehend the wiki link you provided. When I read it I saw several links that made a claim that tin based paint was responsible for problems for sea creatures.

I was not able to find any links comparing problems caused by tin based paint to problems caused by copper based paint (or other methods used to keep bottoms clean).

Since my eyes are bad and sometimes my comprehension is not so good maybe you could provide the links that do compare problems caused by different bottom paints.
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Old 13-12-2013, 14:13   #45
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Re: Best ablative bottom paint for the tropics….

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I would bet my google kung fu is better than yours.

Given you made this admission, I would posit that your powers of research far outdo mine, and you would be best left on your own to make the comparisons for which you ask.



Regardless, as has been mentioned, TBT is banned, internationally. Given that, I personally don't want to bother with any comparison, for I don't care to break the law. Nor do I want to compromise my personal morality.
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