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Old 14-11-2006, 01:43   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevens 47
It is a lead issue. To be more precise it is the angle of the winch in relation to the lead. I have seen sheets bunch at the bottom or ride up at the top, had nothing to do with the make of the winch.
Jack
Id have to agree /w Jack, as Ive never noticed any consequential difference in drum geometry (between manufacturers).
I believe Jack is referring to horizontal lead angle, which is determined by the relative height of the drum and line.
Bunching at the bottom, would suggest either elevating the last block (or 2), or lowering the winch (remove pad?).
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Old 14-11-2006, 10:25   #17
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I read somewhere on a winch faq that the sheet lead to the winch should be about 15 degrees below perpendicular to the lowest turn on the winch.
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Old 14-11-2006, 12:14   #18
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15 degrees is a Lewmar recommendation.

Regards, --JohnL--
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Old 25-05-2007, 12:49   #19
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Aloha Geoff,
There are two Lewmar 65STs on eBay right now. Way too big for my boat. You might be interested?
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Old 25-05-2007, 12:58   #20
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Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
Dang...timing is everything, and mine sucks! I just took the plunge on brand-new (read $$$) Andersen 62's about two months ago.

But thanks for thinking of me, Skipper John!
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Old 25-05-2007, 15:58   #21
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Aloha Geoff,
I wasn't certain you'd read this thread so sent you a private message too and too bad about your prior purchase but you got great winches even though they must have cost a bunch.
How are your new Andersens working? I've hear they are the best.
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Old 25-05-2007, 21:54   #22
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Aloha John;

No worries, you do what you can when you can. I'll let you know about the Andersens as soon as I can try them out; we're still probably a year from floating...sigh.

Signed, Capt. Deferred Gratification,
Geoff
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Old 28-05-2007, 00:43   #23
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The main problem with Masport/Barlow winches in this hemisphere seems to be parts availability. Somebody posted the Kiwi Yachting website which is the best company I've found and have great knowledge of their product. Don't get suckered into buying bearings from winch suppliers. Get the same bearings for a fraction of the cost through a reputable engineering supplier as they are standard sizes. Only issue I've had with these brands is mushrooming of the top bearing surface on the main shaft. This seems to be caused by material hardness rather than wear & I have successfully turned out the mushrooming & still retained excellent bearing clearance without having to re-sleave the journal.
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Old 28-05-2007, 12:46   #24
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Aloha pwederell,

I have two Barlow 32s that are self tailing. One spins easily and the other turns ok but requires a bit more energy. I've never had them apart and don't have any good reference for servicing them.

Is there something published that might help me with field stripping them. Maybe I'm making a simple project more complicated. I've been known to do that. I'd like to make certain they have enough grease and are clean.

Kind Regards,
JohnL
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Old 28-05-2007, 13:08   #25
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SkiprJohn,

Last year I rebuilt one of my six Barient self-tailing cockpit winches...a #32ST. This weekend, I resisted the temptation to be a couch potato and rebuilt the other five: another #32ST, two #28STs, one #27ST, and one #23ST.

When I disassembled them they were all fine. Cleaned gears and bearings in kerosene with a toothbrush, changed pawl springs, lubed the pawls with light oil, lubed the bearings and gears with Lewmar gear grease, and somehow managed to get all the parts back together in the right places.

OK, I cheated. I took digital photos of each stage of disassembly, and marked a couple of gears with small scratches. But for an old guy, such crutches are necessary to avoid messy outcomes :-)

All are back on the boat, lubed, assembled, looking and working great.

These Barients are 26 years old. There are three more on the mast which need doing, but maybe I'll leave that until next Memorial Day :-)

Moral for all: Barients are very good winches. You can still get parts from Australia and from used equipment places here.

Moral 2 self: you ain't over the hill (yet) if you can manage -- even with tricks -- to get these suckers completely cleaned and rebuilt and back together correctly :-)

Bill
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Old 28-05-2007, 13:13   #26
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Thanks Bill.
I'll give it a try. Just never done them before and am a bit confused on how to get the suckers apart to start with. You know, confidence level kind of thing.
JohnL
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Old 28-05-2007, 13:26   #27
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John,

It's actually pretty easy, but is daunting at first. Just be sure to document everything...best to take one apart and keep another identical one for reference.

They're all pretty much the same. There's a way at the top to loosen the drum...a ring with two holes on the larger ones, a s/s ring on the smaller ones. Once these are removed, the drum lifts up off the shaft, with at least two sets of bearings...and maybe a spacer between them on the larger ones...left on the shaft. The bearings (and spacer, if fitted) slide up and off the shaft.

Then, you're left with the need to remove the base. On Barients, this is by way of four hex bolts (1/4" on the mid-sized winches, 5/16" on the larger winches). The Andersons may use metric...not sure.

After you get these out, the base is often stuck to the outer base...the part attached to the deck. Lots of penetrant, coaxing, cursing, and bangs with a rubber mallet are sometimes necessary to break this free.

Then the fun begins. If you have a shop at home or available with a big bench vice, this is helpful. You can mount the base upside down, with the shaft in the vice (protected with rags, but snug) so you can work on the gears and such. Barients have a plate which is screwed down with three hex bolts...3/8" I believe. Once these are removed, you need to coax the plate off...with carefully applied screwdrivers, shims, or whatever all 'round.

This will expose all the gears, pawls, etc. Each of these comes off individually, which is why it's good to document carefully. Another hex bolt in the middle...at the lower end of the shaft...frees up the shaft so that it can be removed, along with it's upper bearing.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Bill
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Old 28-05-2007, 14:16   #28
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Goto: HUTTON-ARCO Yacht Winches
And
Model 32 2SP-ST
Model 32 2SP-ST



Most BARLOW winches and some BARIENT winches manufactured from 1983 onward are held together by a RETAINING NUT. This is a 2-1/2" [63.5mm] outside diameter metal disk surrounding the top end of the main shaft of the winches. Typically, this Retaining Nut is engraved with Barlow or Barient and the model number of the winch. There are also 2 x 3/16" [5mm] diameter holes, 180 degrees opposed, in the top surface of the Retaining Nut. The winches were originally shipped with a dismantling tool, which was nothing more then a bend piece of wire that was hooked into the 2 holes to unscrew the Retaining Nut.
If this tool is lost - try the following method:
  1. Insert a 3/16" screw or a small screwdriver or similar, into one of the two holes.
  2. Insert your winch handle into the Main shaft of the winch and turn the handle against the screw, in a CCW direction, to unscrew the Retaining Nut.
  3. Turn the winch handle in a CW direction to tighten the Retaining Nut.
Most smaller BARLOW Standard winches and some BARIENT Standard winches require a screw to be removed from inside the main shaft in order to dismantle the winch. Those winches were originally supplied with a small plastic part that looked like a handle with a 5/16" [8mm] diameter hole through the centre of the star, through which you was able to insert an Allen key to unscrew the fastener, while at the same time stopping the main shaft from rotating.
If the original dismantling handle is lost, make your own by drilling a hole through one of your non lock-in winch handles.
You could also use a piece of 5/8" to 11/16" square material (plastic, wood, steel - anything) through which you can drill a hole in it, hold it with a shifting spanner, and unscrew the bolt inside the main shaft of your winch.
The following Service Information is of a general nature and applies equally to all ARCO, BARIENT & BARLOW winches.
1) Dismantling the winch

Almost all models can be fully serviced without removing the winch from the deck. Be sure to pay special attention to the following:
  • Lay-out the parts or remember the various parts in order of disassembly
  • When removing the drum, the bearings may stay inside the drum and fall out when you least expect it and roll off the deck. Consequently there are any amount of bearings at the bottom of the oceans.
  • Ratchet Pawl Springs are also easily lost. A part costing a few cents could render your winch unserviceable. It is advisable to keep a supply of Ratchet Pawl Springs in you tool box. If you do not have any spare Springs, it would be good sense to order some before starting to service your winches.
  • Wash all parts in a petroleum solvent (kerosene, paraffin etc) and let dry or wipe dry with a lint free cloth.
  • Visually inspect all parts for damage or obvious wear, i.e. extremely worn, bend or broken gear teeth, ratchet pawls that appear to be very loose in - or fall out off - their sockets and check for parts that have excessive clearance on bearings and shafts. As with most things mechanical, early attention to a potential problem may save money or prevent an injury down the line.
2) Lubricating the Winch
  • Sparingly lubricate all mating parts and bearing surfaces with a waterproof grease, such as lubricants that are being used for machinery in the food industry. In an emergency, Petroleum Jelly is an acceptable alternative. Avoid greases with added 'Teflon'.
  • Lubricate the Ratchet Pawls and Springs with light machine oil. Avoid large amounts of grease in the Ratchet Pawl areas - the grease might become somewhat 'sticky' over a period of time and prevent the pawls from operating freely.
3) Assembling the Winch

  1. Repeatedly 'flick' the Ratchet Pawls to ensure uninhibited operation
  2. Ensure that the Ratchet Pawls engage squarely in the mating ratchet teeth - some ratchet gears can be assembled the wrong way and that will result in the winch slipping back when under load.
  3. Assemble the rest of the components in the reverse order of disassembly.
  4. Check the operation of the winch, if possible before that important race.
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Old 28-05-2007, 14:21   #29
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I have Lewmars, as old as the boat (28 years) and they still work great. I was veryimpressed with the machining when I took them apart for servicing, you just don't see that much attention to detail very often any more. My only complaint is that they used a plastic piece on top which, of course, disintegrates with time. I was told those parts were "no longer available", so I had to make them myself.
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Old 28-05-2007, 21:45   #30
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Thanks for all the great input. Gord, you never fail to amaze me.
I'm going to open one of the big Barlows up tomorrow and see what's inside. I've got one of thos old deck plate opening tools made of bronze. It might fit the little holes 180 deg. apart on the top of the winch.
Thanks again.
P. S. Got an extra 10 percent discount at Home Depot today for being a veteran with a military ID card on Memorial Day.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
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