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Old 18-03-2015, 09:00   #1
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Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Sailing out of the Mediterranean, France, transatlantic toward the US eastern seaboard the question has to do with renovating the rigging on a new-to-me schooner. I want spreaders on fore and main masts for a heavier sail capability.


Is it better/less expensive in Spain en route or in France before cast off?
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Old 18-03-2015, 17:22   #2
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Steve,

You need to contact a NA.

First I doubt that adding more speakers will have any positive effect of sail carrying capability.

Second re-engineering a rig isn't for the inexperienced there is a lot that can go wrong.

Third why would you think that the original rig is poorly designed? Presumably some NA designed the rig for the boat already, and specced it based on the RM of the boat. Absent some specific reason why I can't see this as a good idea.

There are a handful of boats that I can think of that added spreaders, but I can't think of any boat where it is clear that the change is advetagious. And even there the redesign was done professionally.
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Old 19-03-2015, 03:38   #3
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

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Steve,

You need to contact a NA.

First I doubt that adding more speakers will have any positive effect of sail carrying capability.

Second re-engineering a rig isn't for the inexperienced there is a lot that can go wrong.

Third why would you think that the original rig is poorly designed? Presumably some NA designed the rig for the boat already, and specced it based on the RM of the boat. Absent some specific reason why I can't see this as a good idea.

There are a handful of boats that I can think of that added spreaders, but I can't think of any boat where it is clear that the change is advetagious. And even there the redesign was done professionally.
In order to fly gaff topsails, the rigging should support the sail and weight of the 'wind' on a mast with spreaders to hold the pull evenly down the mast through the hull.

With a chain plate or not, depending on the mast, to add spreaders is an extra like adding wide wheels to a Cadillac. And, yes engineering at a shipyard would be a standard. Like dropping a bigger engine in a car, the rear end assembly, differential has to be balanced.


My question is not clear, for that I'm sorry: "Is the price and workmanship better in Spain or in France; or should I wait to get to Maine where the best schooner designers traditionally reside and work.


Anyone out there have to have work done in both and can recommend either over the other: Spain or France?


I was told by a ship rigger in Port Townsend, Washington state that the best schooner riggers are in Maine and with that said, the best prices, too.


When I cross the Atlantic in the clear late Spring weather, I'd like to have my topsails available.
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Old 19-03-2015, 04:53   #4
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

this really is a case of "how long is a piece of string" in terms of where to get it done!

both france and spain have a great tradition of building wooden boats,and rigging them!,though you will find the highest concentration of traditional boat yards are in north west france and north spain.

basically if you break the modification down to it's parts,you will need the following,a blacksmith,to make up the wrought iron mast bands,chain plates etc.
a galvaniser to galvanise the new fittings.
a spar maker or carpenter to make up the spreaders if using wood.
then a rigger to put the whole lot together,and make up your new galvanised wire rigging.

not rocket science,pretty much any yard that builds and maintains wooden fishing boats will have the people that have the skills .

tarragona,barcelona or Marseilles come to mind,as does palma de mallorca
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Old 19-03-2015, 11:12   #5
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

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this really is a case of "how long is a piece of string" in terms of where to get it done!

both france and spain have a great tradition of building wooden boats,and rigging them!,though you will find the highest concentration of traditional boat yards are in north west france and north spain.

basically if you break the modification down to it's parts,you will need the following,a blacksmith,to make up the wrought iron mast bands,chain plates etc.
a galvaniser to galvanise the new fittings.
a spar maker or carpenter to make up the spreaders if using wood.
then a rigger to put the whole lot together,and make up your new galvanised wire rigging.

not rocket science,pretty much any yard that builds and maintains wooden fishing boats will have the people that have the skills .

tarragona,barcelona or Marseilles come to mind,as does palma de mallorca
Currently the boat is parked in Port Carmargue, France considered the largest yard of its kind in Europe.

I appreciate your concern and response, but my question is more specific in terms of being more defined that the length of a piece of string. I wondered if anyone on this forum of cruisers has a preference between Spain or France to go to a yard for the best price and reliable service to add a pair of spreaders to this boat.

There are only a few of this design and others do have spreaders, maybe chain plates. The quote I got from a yard in Port Townsend where the rigger did this modification for his own Ketch was ten thousand US. We didn't discuss the time for the upgrade. It's definitely NOT a do it yourself project. Heh Heh
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Old 19-03-2015, 13:41   #6
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Steve,

The only person I canthink of who may have a lot of experience doiing this would be Brion Toss, but he is out of the Pacific Northwest. You might want to give him a call and get some recomendations.

This is just too specialized an issue for me to have delt with before. Good luck.
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Old 19-03-2015, 14:00   #7
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

If you have the rig work design done, then you have a specific list of parts and work. Chainplates, wire, turnbuckles, spreaders, mast bands, etc. Send the work list to the yards along with photos of the boat and see if they'll quote it.

Some yards will be busy and not want the work, others may have riggers without work and will give you a good price. If you can get specific quotes they're worth a lot more than generalities.
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Old 19-03-2015, 14:15   #8
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Thanks Greg. It's kind of you to follow through. I am simply speculating.


I just got a picture of a similar design schooner without spreaders, flying topsails. The style of topsail without yard jacks. She was in the South Pacific, and also flying her fisherman. Pretty boats, schooners.
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Old 19-03-2015, 14:25   #9
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

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If you have the rig work design done, then you have a specific list of parts and work. Chainplates, wire, turnbuckles, spreaders, mast bands, etc. Send the work list to the yards along with photos of the boat and see if they'll quote it.

Some yards will be busy and not want the work, others may have riggers without work and will give you a good price. If you can get specific quotes they're worth a lot more than generalities.
Thanks. Haven in Port Townsend gave me an off the cuff quote to take with me to Europe. I won't repeat it in case it's misunderstood to be an exact quote. Over the phone, she gave me some quality time in discussing what might be necessary. All in all, it may not be necessary. This boat has a platform on high and that's indicative of her flying a topsail without additional structural bracing.

In all practicality, I'll truly have to have a heater installed . . . in France I'm thinking an oil heater.

This boat is bigger inside than my Carmel-by-the-Sea cottage
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Old 19-03-2015, 16:11   #10
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Steve - I own a schooner moored in Palma de Mallorca and have had work done at shipyards in Palma, Portals and Soller. In my opinion, Mallorcan shipyards are in competition with each other as regards quality and the cost of the work and I've been very satisfied with work done for me. Boats from all over the Med come to Mallorca to have work done. A few years ago I had my Hinckley 50 yawl over here and would rate the work quality to that done at the Hinckley yard in SW Harbor in Maine - and quite a bit cheaper. Some shipyards only haul, store and launch boats; the work is done by independent contractors that specialize in, say, varnishing, mechanical, rigging, etc. This keeps the overhead down and the work quality up.
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Old 19-03-2015, 17:02   #11
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

+1 on palma,but I would give john snow a call in Cartagena ,spain.

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Old 19-03-2015, 21:24   #12
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

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Originally Posted by steve1944 View Post
Sailing out of the Mediterranean, France, transatlantic toward the US eastern seaboard the question has to do with renovating the rigging on a new-to-me schooner. I want spreaders on fore and main masts for a heavier sail capability.


Is it better/less expensive in Spain en route or in France before cast off?
How about some pics & specs? Me luv schooners!
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Old 19-03-2015, 23:47   #13
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Might also be worth looking at Morroco. Not been but heard tell they still build a lot of wooden boats and prices are cheap
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Old 20-03-2015, 13:12   #14
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

Thanks to Kellyp08 for exactly what I'm looking to find out. And, to atol plus Roland Stockham for specifics and alternatives I wouldn't know or have considered without your help and comments.

As for Scout 30, I'm still under wraps about the boat for fear of 'deal poachers.'

I can tell you, at age 10 I was sailing since I was age nine on a family owned boat of wood and all our boats were wood, over 100 years old. We won races, and won races, and won races - had fun learned a lot about sea sickness; and generally I longed to own a schooner.

As the end of this last decade completed itslef and my family dwindled to myself and a best friend since age eleven, the time has come to where the real dream was to sell my house. It sold Mar 10 and now contingencies to remove before I sail off with money in hand to the marina where the dame sits in pristine condition, a mere few years less than the insurable max.

Is there a secrete to measuring for sails? It would be accommodating to have Robin send some interesting sails from Hood in Sausalito. Hmmmmm? I wonder . . . anyone like to wonder with me?
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Old 22-03-2015, 14:25   #15
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Re: Adding Spars Spreaders to Schooner

What's the thread on measuring for sails? Or do we start one?


I guess you climb up the mast with a tape measure, and -- oops, footing ???!!!!! -- heh, heh. Well, with tape measure in hand, . . . .
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