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Old 06-06-2015, 02:12   #16
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

There is a good article on chain here, including some independent testing:

https://coxengineering.sharepoint.co...finitions.aspx

There are also instructions for a simple test that can be done by anyone on a sample of the chain to determine the quality of the weld and galvanising.

If you do this make sure you post the results on CF.

My own impression is that galvanising on Chinese chain is generally better than that from more developed countries. I suspect because there are fewer health, safety and environmental standards in China.

However, there are a lot of welds in chain and the strength is only as good as the weakest link so good QC is essential. First world countries do this better.

To put this into perspective, the risk of the anchor dragging and causing damage is is probably in the region of four orders of magnitude higher than the risk of the chain failing (providing the chain is replaced before significant corrosion).

I suspect with the general move to thinner diameter chains, we will see more cases of chain failure. Those boats pushing the limits of chain size need to be careful, but for most boats the risk is very small.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:37   #17
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

the problem we found with chinese chain in san diego in 2002 was that the galvanization failed badly causing a hudson force 50 to break a link and destroy 4 other boats. had the galvo been done well, this would not have happened. it wasnt the steel it was the galvo.
usa makes no steel anyore, nor has usa made steel since 1970. it was outsourced due to labor costs, aka union wages interfering with the ability to efficiently produce that which other nations were producing without the mayhem. therefore, dependence on other nations for production.
galvanization done correctly and REGULAR INSPECTIONS of your chain rode are how to prevent fail.
anyone anchoring frequently will be inspecting their chain each and every time it is used.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:03   #18
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

The galvanizing has nothing at all to do with the strength of the chain. If chain breaks, it is either due to exceeding its limits, a bad weld or it has rusted/worn away.

The galvanizing keeps it from rusting, but if your example had chain that rusted that badly and still put in use, one cannot blame the galvanizing for the failure.

Steel is certainly made in the US still. There is an entire industry, although not as large as it used to be. Even chain. Peerless/ACCO makes chain in the US using US steel. There are several industrial chain manufactures making product in the US using US steel.

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Old 06-06-2015, 09:10   #19
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
The galvanizing has nothing at all to do with the strength of the chain. If chain breaks, it is either due to exceeding its limits, a bad weld or it has rusted/worn away.

The galvanizing keeps it from rusting, but if your example had chain that rusted that badly and still put in use, one cannot blame the galvanizing for the failure.

Steel is certainly made in the US still. There is an entire industry, although not as large as it used to be. Even chain. Peerless/ACCO makes chain in the US using US steel. There are several industrial chain manufactures making product in the US using US steel.

Mark
unfortunately, when the chain was left in and under water for more than a year by the port of san diego, it caused a rust thru situation which caused the link to twistoflex and fail. the chain was 1 inch chinese chain used on all moorings in san diego bay.
since then, all the moorings are inspected and maintained well every year.
as long as the chain is regularly inspected and not left to rot without being inspected and maintained, it will fail--doesnt matter where it was created or galvod.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:29   #20
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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The servers that this forum runs on were almost surely made in China. The computers and monitors we view this forum with were made in China. China can build quality products when not building to a Harbor Freight price point. And even some of the Harbor Freight tools are pretty good.

Acco chain galvanizing is not what it used to be. Search CF for rusting Acco chain for other opinions on that subject. My 5/16 G4 chain started rusting after 6 months of daily anchoring. The 10 year old chain it replaced was in better condition. Oh well... Its only money.
I agree Acco chain is not what it used to be. My new Acco chain began rusting in less than 6 months. The chain I replaced was 11 years old. I am guessing I'll be lucky to get 3 years out of this crappy chain.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:34   #21
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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I agree Acco chain is not what it used to be. My new Acco chain began rusting in less than 6 months. The chain I replaced was 11 years old. I am guessing I'll be lucky to get 3 years out of this crappy chain.
the new chain i bought in 2011 just before i left sd bay was used in rocky anchorages and the galvo was chipped and chunked by rocks in that choppy anchorage. .. is still usable, as none of the chain has lost its diameter. i check it each and every use, and is still all good. just because galvo is gone doesnt weaken the chain. galvo is merely protection from corrosion, not a strength thing.
3 years is a short lifespan for chain that was new--especially if used frequently. i plan on buying new chain only when there ar links that look a if their diameters are smaller than when originly purchased. yes i have a micrometer.
of course, if the chain is for display, one would want it perfect, but for constant use, it really doesnt matter, as long a s inspection is with every use, before and after using.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:03   #22
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
There is a good article on chain here, including some independent testing:

https://coxengineering.sharepoint.co...finitions.aspx

There are also instructions for a simple test that can be done by anyone on a sample of the chain to determine the quality of the weld and galvanising.

If you do this make sure you post the results on CF.
Thank you for introducing some common sense testing for the layman into this. In addition to what you site, there are numerous other tests which anyone can do on chain to well test, both; it's galvanizing, & metallurgical integrity (in addition to having samples lab tested). They're KISS, cheap, & again, common sense.
Assuming, that is, that you can get the folks selling the chain to; give/sell you a few feet for testing, as well as keeping that EXACT batch of chain on hand until your tests on the sample pieces are done.

Cheap insurance, if rocks make you nervous.

And guys, THANK YOU, for keeping/bringing this problem(s) to the forefront of folks thinking. As yeah, for me: Boats + Rocks = Need for Tranquilizers!
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:38   #23
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

The chain I use was purchased in England and is the good 12mm galvanized stuff. Four years now and no rust. When it finally requires replacement, it will be stainless.

I'd never trust the Chinese crap to hold our boat, and can't believe others actually buy the sh$t just to save a few bucks... it boggles the mind, because they end up paying more in the long run by needing to replace the chain more often.
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:47   #24
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by cabo_sailor View Post
I just ordered 200 ft of 5/16 chain. I asked the salesperson if it was Acco chain or Chinese. He told me that basically all the chain was Chinese but Acco imports the raw chain and hot galvanizes it here in the U.S.
This might explain the longevity difference in corrosion. That is, Acco just does a better job of galvanizing.

I certainly hope so, it's too expensive to replace it every couple years. Oh and the chain I ordered is from Acco.

Just a FYI.

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Hi Rich,

I never purchase any anchor chain that doesn't have a proof certificate [validation that each link was load tested by the factory] for the batch I'm buying. Legit manufacturers always provide a proof certificate with their barrels of chain. (I bought a barrel of 5/16" G4 last year and received the cert.) You may have to ask your retailer for it as they sometimes file it with their purchase paperwork.

No proof certificate, no purchase. Period.

The mileage of others may vary.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:37   #25
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

New to this... Is this the only company available for good galvanized chain?
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:49   #26
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by zengirl View Post
New to this... Is this the only company available for good galvanized chain?
No, there are plenty of good companies around the globe selling high quality chain. There just seems to be too many tight wad sailors who buy the crappy Chinese stuff instead, thinking they're actually saving money. Usually the price will be a good indicator of where it was made.

I'm not referring to you.
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Old 06-06-2015, 13:02   #27
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

I think the post on Galvanic reaction is dead on point,

Galvanization is nothing more then Zinc coating.....So lets think about what other uses of Zinc we have on a BOAT HMMMMMM

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Old 06-06-2015, 13:22   #28
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
No, there are plenty of good companies around the globe selling high quality chain. There just seems to be too many tight wad sailors who buy the crappy Chinese stuff instead, thinking they're actually saving money. Usually the price will be a good indicator of where it was made.

I'm not referring to you.
WHEW!! Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2015, 14:31   #29
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
No, there are plenty of good companies around the globe selling high quality chain. There just seems to be too many tight wad sailors who buy the crappy Chinese stuff instead, thinking they're actually saving money. Usually the price will be a good indicator of where it was made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I'm not referring to you.
In the US it is difficult to source quality chain, irrespective of price.

Peerless/ACCO is available at the larger vendors, Campbell requires searching, and that leaves... Mostly Chinese off-brand stuff/junk.

If Maggi gets its act together in the US, they will supply my next shot of chain.
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Old 06-06-2015, 15:53   #30
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Re: Acco vs Chinese chain

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
There just seems to be too many tight wad sailors who buy the crappy Chinese stuff instead, thinking they're actually saving money.
I think most people buying Chinese chain either 1) Don't have any other source of chain available. 2) Buy it from a chandlery and don't realize it is Chinese chain. 3) Are not educated on the difference.

I think the smallest grouping are people knowingly choosing inferior chain over other available because of price. And those are 25yr old French…

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