Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-07-2013, 10:56   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Panama Atlantic Side
Boat: Whitby 42
Posts: 20
Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

After two years in salt water our Acco chain started to rust and after 4 years it became unusable. I know Mark on Reach have the same experience with even faster rusting. Are other boats having problems with Acco chain and if so can they recommend an alternative. I started to look into Maggi chain and it is obviously not common in US or Canada.
Steve
__________________

__________________
lions paw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 10:59   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Steve, how long do you think it should last?

If you anchor a lot (as we have done for years) the galvanizing wears off in a couple of years or so. Then you get it regalvanized, and in a couple of years it is gone again. Part of the cost of cruising... IMO.

Cheers,

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 11:11   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Is it BBB or G4? G4 rusts worse.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 11:20   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,368
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Is it BBB or G4? G4 rusts worse.
Ah shucks. Really wish you hadn't said that. I was thinking about switching. Current gypsy and chain is 3/8" BBB. I compared new 3/8" BBB to 5/16" G4. The G4 was cheaper, lighter and rated higher WLL. Seemed like a no-brainer. But if BBB is only good for a year or two of serious anchoring how long would G4 last?

Regalvanizing every year would be a pain. Plus doesn't seem like an easy thing to do. I looked all over north FL and couldn't find anyone that would do anchor chain, at least not cost effectively. The few galvanizers I found had some huge minimum that was over half the cost of new chain.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 11:28   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Like Steve mentions, our Acco G4 chain sourced through Defender Industries (I mention them only to illustrate that the source was not a fly-by-night) rusted completely within 6 months and was unusable within a year - jumping the gypsy and casting sheet rust over the deck.

While in Grenada, I ran into 14 cruising boats with Acco G4 chain that was completely unusable within periods ranging from 4 months to 18 months.

In all cases, the chain was well beyond having the capacity for regalvanizing. Sheet rust the size of chain links were coming off.

I don't consider replacing chain every 6-12 months a normal cost of cruising, and know that Acco has a problem with their chain.

Our Maggi G4 chain looks almost new after 3 years of continuous anchoring. The only signs of use are small rust spots where the links connect to, and rub on each other. The rest of the link galvanizing is fine.

In Grenada, I also ran into a few boats with Acco chain that was several years old with no problems. From the data, I was able to form the hypothesis that Acco G3 chain does not have much issues and Acco G4 chain purchased before the Peerless acquisition and moving of the manufacturing plant also seems good.

It is the Acco G4 chain purchased after they were bought by Peerless and moved the manufacturing plant that has the problems.

Acco/Peerless confirmed to me that they changed their galvanizing procedures and methods when they moved their manufacturing facilities after the acquisition.

To give Defender credit, they worked with me and Acco to get the chain replaced. Originally, Acco said I abused the chain, then said it was normal wear, then said it wasn't their chain. Defender stepped in and called BS - showing them their purchase from Acco and my purchase from them. Acco then agreed to replace the chain and said that my experience was the only one they have ever heard of. Soon after, 14 other people complained to Acco about the same experience, and Acco crawled back under their rock and refused to communicate with anyone anymore.

Needless to say, we never received our replacement chain from Acco and went with Maggi instead. One of the best boating decisions I have made.

Defender was good through all of this but could do no more, I guess.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 11:47   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Wow, good to know. Sounds like the EPA has caught up with ACCO and they now have more green "galvanizing" .....? :>)
I've seen old BBB that looked great... even G4 should last more than 2 years... real bummer. Does Campbell Chain still make it?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 11:57   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Mark, that is a pretty sad situation, and I agree that that service life is not acceptable.

Having been gone from the US for many years I've not had to get galvo done there for a while... used to be easy in the SF area!

Still fairly easy in Oz, but growing more difficult as the greenies have their influence.

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 12:08   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 806
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

For another perspective, my ACCO G4 chain, dating back to 2006, is still quite useable, with only minor rust apparent.

I have also, from time to time, rinsed it with fresh water if possible.

Note that this chain predates the ACCO company sale and relocation. Would I replace this chain with a new ACCO product? Not sure...
__________________
redsky49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 13:25   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,368
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Like Steve mentions, our Acco G4 chain sourced through Defender Industries (I mention them only to illustrate that the source was not a fly-by-night) rusted completely within 6 months and was unusable within a year - jumping the gypsy and casting sheet rust over the deck.

While in Grenada, I ran into 14 cruising boats with Acco G4 chain that was completely unusable within periods ranging from 4 months to 18 months.

In all cases, the chain was well beyond having the capacity for regalvanizing. Sheet rust the size of chain links were coming off.

I don't consider replacing chain every 6-12 months a normal cost of cruising, and know that Acco has a problem with their chain.

Our Maggi G4 chain looks almost new after 3 years of continuous anchoring. The only signs of use are small rust spots where the links connect to, and rub on each other. The rest of the link galvanizing is fine.

In Grenada, I also ran into a few boats with Acco chain that was several years old with no problems. From the data, I was able to form the hypothesis that Acco G3 chain does not have much issues and Acco G4 chain purchased before the Peerless acquisition and moving of the manufacturing plant also seems good.

It is the Acco G4 chain purchased after they were bought by Peerless and moved the manufacturing plant that has the problems.

Acco/Peerless confirmed to me that they changed their galvanizing procedures and methods when they moved their manufacturing facilities after the acquisition.

To give Defender credit, they worked with me and Acco to get the chain replaced. Originally, Acco said I abused the chain, then said it was normal wear, then said it wasn't their chain. Defender stepped in and called BS - showing them their purchase from Acco and my purchase from them. Acco then agreed to replace the chain and said that my experience was the only one they have ever heard of. Soon after, 14 other people complained to Acco about the same experience, and Acco crawled back under their rock and refused to communicate with anyone anymore.

Needless to say, we never received our replacement chain from Acco and went with Maggi instead. One of the best boating decisions I have made.

Defender was good through all of this but could do no more, I guess.

Mark
So where did you buy the Maggi chain. Did a little R&D on the internet and no US dealers jumped out at me. I went on the Maggi web site and filled in the online request for information form and never heard back. Not encouraging.

Also, could not find specs on the Maggi G4. Does it have the same link dimensions as the Acco 5/16" G4? If not, it will be a problem getting a matching gypsy for my ancient Simpson Lawrence windlass.

I also looked at the Acco web site to see what they had to say about warranty but there was nothing at all about the marine chain. Plenty of mention of warranty on regular consumer products so this also worries me a bit.

Would be nice if Defender was selling Maggi chain.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 14:20   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Oh, sorry about that. We bought it in Grenada. Budget Marine throughout the Eastern Carib sells it. I do not know of anyone in the US selling Maggi.

We have a SL Horizon 1500 windlass and the 8mm Maggi fits just as well as the 5/16" Acco. The 8mm does not have the same dimensions as the 5/16", but it fits the gypsy fine.

Maggi calls their G4 chain "Aqua 4", so maybe that will help with your search for specs.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 14:53   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

I see Campbell still sells chain. They were THE chain in the PNW fishing industry before I ever heard of Acco. Interestingly though, I dont see BBB on their list. Their G4 is sold plain, zinc coated and hot galvanized.
http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/...c=020418058912

Also, is it possible some people bought/endd up with Acco zinc coated instead of Galvanized?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 14:59   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Also, is it possible some people bought/endd up with Acco zinc coated instead of Galvanized?
I guess it is possible, but that is not how West Marine, Defender, et al described it. Personally, I doubt they would even carry anything other than hot dipped galvanized, and certainly doubt they would try to get away with passing a different chain off as galvanized. And if Acco tried to pull the wool over their eyes, I would think there would be hell to pay.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 15:05   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

I've heard the same about Acco. I bought 300' of Acco G4 from Defender and it's still looking pretty good, purchased in 2010-ish. From all the flack I've heard about them I'm hoping the chain holds up through the South Pacific and I can get better in Oceania as I've heard there are some better brands there (and in Italy?).

The only maintenance I really do is flip it around every year. The bitter end becomes the new shackled end, etc.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 15:15   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I guess it is possible, but that is not how West Marine, Defender, et al described it. Personally, I doubt they would even carry anything other than hot dipped galvanized, and certainly doubt they would try to get away with passing a different chain off as galvanized. And if Acco tried to pull the wool over their eyes, I would think there would be hell to pay.

Mark
or Acco shipped the wrong product (alot!) and dont want to own up to it.... I imagine just shipping a 500 + lb barrel of chain is about as much $ as the chain!
I wonder if they've gone to cold galvanizing of some sort due to environmental reasons?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2013, 15:26   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,002
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Acco chain, are other cruisers experiencing problems

If you can't recognize the difference between zinc plated and hot dipped galvanized, you need your glasses changed. Will be interesting to see if there are further complaints about the ACCO galvanized chain.

G40 high tensile steel is more prone to rust than good old BBB. The stronger the alloy, the faster they seem to rust. Still, would expect to get way more than 1-2 years of service out of galvanized chain in 24/7 service.
__________________

__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruise, cruiser, enc

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.