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Old 12-12-2018, 15:42   #91
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

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Mr. B, Those are actually very poor water pumps but they are great for inflating pool toys.
I did say, Assume, Ive never tried them, So dont know,

They would be great for blowing up tractor tubes in an emergency to keep you afloat,
There is always a positive side to every thing,
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Old 12-12-2018, 17:38   #92
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump





The original WW11 stirrup pump was designed to pump water out of a bucket to extinguish fires from Incendiary bombs. the foot of the stirrup was stepped on the provide the anchored resistance for the up stroke. the bottom of the pump barrel had a brass screen so that any water source could be used without clogging. I had never heard of this being used in a marine application. perhaps modern marine equipment manufacturers should consider producing this design in plastic?
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Old 13-12-2018, 23:41   #93
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

Think the world of Whale Gusher. All engineering with aluminum in salt water apps is iffy. It can and does corrode even the 5,000 series and above. The "lump' is likely do to age and not rinsing it after use. That is my guess. I avoid aluminum if I can and metal in general. Fibrous plastic is better in most cases. Rubber that is cure dated and 316 stainless fastened. It's just how I roll. If I have to drill or machine aluminum I detest it as a metal. It is unworthy. But I know how it feels to hope a company will come through and they don't. I had a warrantee or an Icom radio that they had manufactured with a faulty clip that caused it jump ship into Davey Jones. I was sooo mad when they toyed with me on that it took years to buy another one of their products and I still feel wary.. Life goes on/ But I will now reiterate: Whale Gusher is a fantastic
company IMO
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Old 14-12-2018, 05:52   #94
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

Update on the original post.


After carefully sanding off the 'lump' causing the problem, it was a paint lump. It was NOT corrosion, and not a lump from previous repainting! In fact, there were several other paint runs on the pump, including a lump under a hose connection. Only the paint lump under the intake valve would be catastrophic. After only a few minutes of sanding, the pump now works as it was originally intended.


Obviously, the most important lesson in the 'Fail' is 'you get what you inspect, not what you expect.' My fault, obviously.

In the rush to judgement, most posts disregarded issues of quality control by the manufacturer (the lump was in plain sight when they installed the intake valve), and their lack of responsibility beyond the warranty period. Clearly, that responsibility does NOT and should NOT include what happens when failure results from poor maintenance.

The underlying premise of my original post largely went unnoticed. Should manufacturer responsibility only extend to poor design, manufacturing, and quality control problems arising during the warranty period?
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Old 14-12-2018, 06:05   #95
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

Manufacturers should strive to provide a quality product, but there is no reason to expect them to cover old products.

Itís quite possible that when new the pump was functional and age has hardened the valves to the point that theyíre no longer sealing. New pliable valves would be ok.

Itís an imperfect world.
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Old 14-12-2018, 06:16   #96
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaby View Post
Update on the original post.


After carefully sanding off the 'lump' causing the problem, it was a paint lump. It was NOT corrosion, and not a lump from previous repainting! In fact, there were several other paint runs on the pump, including a lump under a hose connection. Only the paint lump under the intake valve would be catastrophic. After only a few minutes of sanding, the pump now works as it was originally intended.


Obviously, the most important lesson in the 'Fail' is 'you get what you inspect, not what you expect.' My fault, obviously.

In the rush to judgement, most posts disregarded issues of quality control by the manufacturer (the lump was in plain sight when they installed the intake valve), and their lack of responsibility beyond the warranty period. Clearly, that responsibility does NOT and should NOT include what happens when failure results from poor maintenance.

The underlying premise of my original post largely went unnoticed. Should manufacturer responsibility only extend to poor design, manufacturing, and quality control problems arising during the warranty period?

Well, it's also up to us to think critically a bit before we choose which items of gear to buy.


The warranty only covers a year or two of ownership; usually not the whole useful life. You can't rely on the warranty for an item of gear to work out a reasonable useful life. Imagine if Yanmar sold engines that dissolved after two years of service. You would be outraged and would never buy one.


Well, same thing here. Why do we buy pumps made of a patently unsuitable material? And on top of that, badly painted, which exacerbates the first problem? It's our bad, not Whale's, that we buy this kind of carp in the first place.


As to Whale as a company -- I have Whale Gulper pumps which I think are brilliant. One of the two on my boat is ORIGINAL to the boat is still working great; just replaced a couple of diaphragms, and those were likely killed by someone putting chlorine bleach down the system. The forward one even still has the original diaphragm. I have a high opinion of these.


But I use Whale Supersubs as maintenance pumps in two bilges, and these are like Chinese toys -- not recommended. One of them spun its little impeller right off and stoppped working. Bleh. It was only a few years old.



In my opinion, Whale is not a company whose products you can count on, just because they bear the Whale brand.


The Gusher 10 I spent a whole afternoon refurbishing will go to the trash the next time the valve seat fails. Something made of actually suitable material (bronze or plastic) will replace it.
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Old 14-12-2018, 06:57   #97
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Manufacturers should strive to provide a quality product, but there is no reason to expect them to cover old products.

Itís quite possible that when new the pump was functional and age has hardened the valves to the point that theyíre no longer sealing. New pliable valves would be ok.

Itís an imperfect world.

Given the condition of the pump on disassembly, it was clear that it was never functional (see OP photos). The old valves are as soft and pliable as the ones in the rebuild kit I purchased, and the lump of paint was high enough that a seal would never form.



Let's get to the crux: Should a company be responsible for obvious manufacturing defects regardless of age? What if the company knows there is a defect and does nothing to fix it, or worse, tries to cover it up?



The best companies set high standards and value their reputation. They stand by their products long after the warranty expires. For example, I recently contacted the manufacturer of my MOB light. The (NEW) non-leak battery leaked and dissolved electrical connections etc. A replacement light arrived a few days later. That company has high standards and seeks to improve their products. Maybe that is why I have over $6K of their equipment on my vessel.
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Old 14-12-2018, 07:39   #98
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

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Originally Posted by Wallaby View Post
Given the condition of the pump on disassembly, it was clear that it was never functional (see OP photos). The old valves are as soft and pliable as the ones in the rebuild kit I purchased, and the lump of paint was high enough that a seal would never form.



Let's get to the crux: Should a company be responsible for obvious manufacturing defects regardless of age? What if the company knows there is a defect and does nothing to fix it, or worse, tries to cover it up?



The best companies set high standards and value their reputation. They stand by their products long after the warranty expires. For example, I recently contacted the manufacturer of my MOB light. The (NEW) non-leak battery leaked and dissolved electrical connections etc. A replacement light arrived a few days later. That company has high standards and seeks to improve their products. Maybe that is why I have over $6K of their equipment on my vessel.



But they all have obvious manufacturing defects. The product is hopeless with or without the paint blob.


Most decent companies will solve obvious manufacturing defects long after the warranty is over, but when every one of the products is faulty?
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Old 14-12-2018, 12:12   #99
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

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Let's get to the crux: Should a company be responsible for obvious manufacturing defects regardless of age? What if the company knows there is a defect and does nothing to fix it, or worse, tries to cover it up?

You presented no evidence the company was aware the pump was defective when they sold it to you.

You admitted the pump is many years past its warranty period which would have covered a manufacturing defect.

So, no, the company is not responsible for a one-off manufacturing defect found years after the fact.

Some defects donít escape the years of warranty in some countries. A defect that is inherent in the design sometimes must be handled even after the defect warranty expires. Example: Takata air bag inflators.

The expiration date on the warranty gives the user ample time to use and verify the device works. In this case your failure to test the product until long after the warranty expired leaves the company no responsibility based on what has been presented.

Warranty is part of the purchase cost you paid. You canít get a better warranty after the fact than the one you bought. If companies allowed claims like yours they would be awash in claims going back decades. Thatís exactly why most warranties have time limits.
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Old 14-12-2018, 18:29   #100
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

Say you bought a new car, drove it home, parked it in the garage and never touched for 18 years. Then you started it and tried to back out of the garage only to discover that the car had a fault that prevented it from reversing.

Not a design fault that applied to the whole production run, just your car which was not correctly assembled or tested before delivery to you.

Do you contact them after 18 years and say my car doesn't reverse, I want warranty?

What would expect their response to be?
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Old 14-12-2018, 20:20   #101
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

So for aluminum maybe one of the following would work: powder coating, electric spray ceramic, or triple plate (copper, nickel, chrome). Iím considering powder coat next spring.
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Old 15-12-2018, 03:04   #102
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

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So for aluminum maybe one of the following would work: powder coating, electric spray ceramic, or triple plate (copper, nickel, chrome). I’m considering powder coat next spring.

Powder coating would certainly improve performance in sea water. I considered sending mine off for powder coating, but in the event I decided that this would only delay the inevitable disintegration.


Note that these pumps are not only aluminum, they are apparently -- based on the crumbling I observed -- plain aluminum, not one of the alloys which are somewhat resistant to sea water.


For the cost (and hassle) of powder coating, you could just buy a new pump made of suitable material. Whale themselves make plastic pumps.
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Old 15-12-2018, 05:52   #103
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

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Given the condition of the pump on disassembly, it was clear that it was never functional (see OP photos). The old valves are as soft and pliable as the ones in the rebuild kit I purchased, and the lump of paint was high enough that a seal would never form...
Implied warranties are created by state law, and all states have them. Almost every purchase you make is covered by an implied warranty. If your purchase does not come with a written warranty, it is still covered by implied warranties unless the product is marked "as is," or the seller otherwise indicates in writing that no warranty is given.

The most common type of implied warrantyóa "warranty of merchantability," means that the seller promises that the product will do what it is supposed to do. For example, a car will run and a pump will pump.

Another type of implied warranty is the "warranty of fitness for a particular purpose." This applies when you buy a product on the seller's advice that it is suitable for a particular use. Hence, a bilge pump should be suitable to pump typical bilge contents.

From ➥ https://consumer.findlaw.com/consume...ntability.html
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Old 15-12-2018, 06:02   #104
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

If you go off shore and your Emergency bilge pump fails after 20 years and you sink . You Have no case !! You know the new ones are Chinese !!
Your job to test all pumps before you go out of the slip !
Test re test and carry spares !!Its a Boat !!!!!
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Old 27-12-2018, 10:32   #105
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Re: A Whale of a Fail: Emergency bilge pump

Set up at a large boatshow, you'll get a positive response!
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