Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: What would you actually buy? Quality vs Budget.
Plastimo: Cruiser, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 24kg, 950€ 0 0%
Plastimo: Offshore, 4Person,24hrs max, Valise, 33.5kg, 1800€ 0 0%
SVB Seatec by Seago: Offshore, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 26kg, 850€ 1 33.33%
Seago: Model ISO 9650-1, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 34kg, 1300€ 0 0%
Zodiac: Open Sea, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 35kg, 1600€ 1 33.33%
AWN/SeaCurity: Model ISO9650-1, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 33kg, 1150€ 0 0%
AWN/SeaCurity: Model Offshore, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 26kg, 800€ 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-03-2016, 12:20   #1
Registered User
 
Franziska's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Harlingen, The Netherlands
Boat: Woods Mira 35 Catamaran
Posts: 513
Which liferaft? Experiences?

Hi,

I am looking for a reasonably priced good liferaft.
Now I am overwhelmed with the choices available over here in Europe.

Can anyone help by posting here what they found in terms of quality and pricing?
I know that this might be tainted by resellers opinions but I guess there will be a general tendency.

Is it correct that the only real difference between the less than 24hr models and more than 24hrs models are only in the equipment within?
The price difference seems hefty. 450€ extra for the following equipment which one could easily add in a grabbag:
  • 3Emergency Flares
  • 1First aid kit
  • Emergency rations
  • Drinking water
  • Flashlight with battery
  • 2Emergency blankets
Comparative prices are based on valise (easier to handle in my case), 4Person (the size I need max). Double bottom chambers seem wise.

Choices are for example:

Plastimo:
  • Cruiser, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 24kg, 950€
  • Offshore, 4Person,24hrs max, Valise, 33.5kg, 1800€
SVB Seatec by Seago:
  • Offshore, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 26kg, 850€
Seago:
  • Model ISO 9650-1, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 34kg, 1300€
Zodiac:
  • Open Sea, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 35kg, 1600€
AWN/SeaCurity:
  • Model ISO9650-1, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 33kg, 1150€
  • Model Offshore, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 26kg, 800€
So the same size can cost between 1800€ and 800€. Are the quality differences really that big?
Lets base this primarely on the rafts themselves and less on the "content". A grabbag can bring anything vital with it if stored close to the raft.

Thanks for your thoughts, experiences and recommendations. Also an bad experiences are appreciated.

Franziska
__________________

Franziska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 12:51   #2
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Why handicap yourself with a Seago ISO spec price? Why buy in euros? (saw the other, but you can get a better deal).

SEAGO 4 MAN OFFSHORE LIFERAFT - VALISE - £589.99 (under 750 euros)

SEAGO 4 MAN OFFSHORE LIFERAFT - VALISE - Seago Liferafts - Discount Marine Chandlery and Sailing Equipment. Bargain Boat Spares and Clothing

cheap servicing too.

In fact I think I found an even better price in the valise in your previous thread?

Nothing else competes (why I am not getting a liferaft until I get back from America with the boat. I will not support the USA rip off prices for what are supposed to be safety items, along with their even more rip off servicing costs).

I could care less about me, but before my baby nephew gets on the boat, there's going to be a liferaft, and if I can get an emergency self inflating playpen, I'll get him one of those too (I hope Seago start doing them).

My only relationship with Seago is as a future customer - they have been making great liferafts for a very long time now.

PS You are heading this way, so pop in and pick up a Seago, and you can have fish and chips and a heck of a lot of change with it.
__________________

__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 12:58   #3
Registered User
 
Franziska's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Harlingen, The Netherlands
Boat: Woods Mira 35 Catamaran
Posts: 513
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Why buy in Euros :-) Well that's the currency one uses in mainland Europe these days... And the country I live in currently.

Can anyone else second to the Seago quality stated?

www.ladyrover.jimdo.com
Franziska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 13:05   #4
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Why buy in Euros :-) Well that's the currency one uses in mainland Europe these days... And the country I live in currently.

Can anyone else second to the Seago quality stated?

Welcome to the Woods Mira 35 - Catamaran Lady Rovers Website!
Even with currency conversion costs you are way ahead. I think especially so if you can still get the earlier deal I found. I might be wrong, but I thought you were headed in this sort of direction this year anyway?

I agree 100% with you about grab bags rather than paying a lot for limited extras.

I'll see if I can find some comparison tests (all the ones I read were quite a while ago).

I used to pass the Avon factory several times a week, and even out of the factory door they couldn't compete on price, and were no better than a Seago.

eta: Found a recent test:

http://www.ekensnaval.com/seago/pbo_...st_seago-3.pdf

I do like that the Seago's tubes are butyl rubber rather than PVC.
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 13:17   #5
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

I just bought a new 4 man valise. I didn't pay the extra $1,000 for extra inclusions, mainly food.

In these days of EPIRBS I prefer to have 2 epirbs and a Sat phone. That should get one rescued far faster that the average time only 10 years ago

Of course some people will say that you can't skimp on safety. Well, you can. One can judiciously work the numbers, and save money.

Have your Grab Bag attached to the valise with a lanyard... and make sure it FLOATS!

BTW When was the last book written about a long stay in a life raft? Except for that Equidorian fisherman, not for decades. People with EPIRBS get picked up quick-smart.


Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 13:28   #6
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Side deck water jugs to the cockpit end too, so can be pulled/thrown off.

I'd add a diesel jug too, and stick a syringe in the grab bag for an oil dripper. Oil on troubled waters, and all that.

They'll float.

I agree 100% with this too (having spent a fair bit of time as a buyer):

"One can judiciously work the numbers, and save money."

and even end up with superior products.
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 13:38   #7
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

The Seago Offshore valise.. Piplers £598..
if I had to..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 13:42   #8
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

I would buy the one that ticks off most of your boxes. If two come on par, I would buy the less expensive one.

The only makes I have ever heard to be better than others were Viking and Switlik. I am not sure why that person had that opinion. Probably a result of many years of servicing countless units of all possible makes.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 13:52   #9
Registered User
 
Lizzy Belle's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Netherlands
Boat: Ohlson 29
Posts: 1,522
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

If I decide to buy one (which I doubt, but who knows), I'd buy the smallest (solo sailor, the bigger the easier it'll flip) and cheapest I can find, to be honest.

The extra's are way overpriced imho, so I'd buy those I'd want separate and put it in a floating grab-bag kept with the raft.
__________________
"Il faut κtre toujours ivre." - Charles Baudelaire
Dutch ♀ Liveaboard, sharing an Ohlson 29 with a feline.
Lizzy Belle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 14:36   #10
Registered User
 
Orion Jim's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Noank, Ct. USA
Boat: Cape Dory 31
Posts: 1,075
Images: 6
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

I single-hand and I have a Zodiac 4 man valise. The weight is important to me and I was familiar with the quality of Zodiac so I chose accordingly. My ditch bag floats and is kept fully packed ready for use. I have an EPIRB and I also bring two hand-held VHF's to assist with my recovery, along with all the usual ditch bag goodies.
__________________
Orion Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 14:39   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Yep. I too think making my own pack is the way to go. Pack stuff depending on what sort of sailing you do and how you are likely to be rescued. You not just want to survive, you want to assure others know of your distress and can find you.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 14:49   #12
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,978
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Hi,

I am looking for a reasonably priced good liferaft.
Now I am overwhelmed with the choices available over here in Europe.

Can anyone help by posting here what they found in terms of quality and pricing?
I know that this might be tainted by resellers opinions but I guess there will be a general tendency.

Is it correct that the only real difference between the less than 24hr models and more than 24hrs models are only in the equipment within?
The price difference seems hefty. 450€ extra for the following equipment which one could easily add in a grabbag:
  • 3Emergency Flares
  • 1First aid kit
  • Emergency rations
  • Drinking water
  • Flashlight with battery
  • 2Emergency blankets
Comparative prices are based on valise (easier to handle in my case), 4Person (the size I need max). Double bottom chambers seem wise.

Choices are for example:

Plastimo:
  • Cruiser, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 24kg, 950€
  • Offshore, 4Person,24hrs max, Valise, 33.5kg, 1800€
SVB Seatec by Seago:
  • Offshore, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 26kg, 850€
Seago:
  • Model ISO 9650-1, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 34kg, 1300€
Zodiac:
  • Open Sea, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 35kg, 1600€
AWN/SeaCurity:
  • Model ISO9650-1, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 33kg, 1150€
  • Model Offshore, 4Person, 24hrs max, Valise, 26kg, 800€
So the same size can cost between 1800€ and 800€. Are the quality differences really that big?
Lets base this primarely on the rafts themselves and less on the "content". A grabbag can bring anything vital with it if stored close to the raft.

Thanks for your thoughts, experiences and recommendations. Also an bad experiences are appreciated.

Franziska
We have a portland pudgy at the top of our list.

Those inflatable things are unreliable and truly uncomfortable. Not what I would consider a safety critical option.

I can't think of many cases where they saved anyone. They do seem to either get blown away or dont deploy.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 14:58   #13
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Apparently the French government condemns (or condemned, at least) all life rafts at ten years of age, so Zodiac (at least Zodiac-US, claiming to be following Zodiac orders) refuses to service any raft after ten years. They claim that there are simply too many glue failures at that point. Which is one strike against Zodiac, but also to point out that you can get a raft either glued or welded (i.e. ultrasonic welding or hf radio welding) and you don't want a glued one unless you plan to throw it away.


I have no idea how Seago assembles butyl ones, but butyl is very rugged, resists oxidation extremely well, and doesn't age the way that PVC or calendared nylons will. Which could make it very interesting. AFAIK the brand is unknown here in the Colonies, I've never seen tests or reviews on it here.


You might want to look at the repack schedule and costs, not just the purchase cost. Remember that every 3rd year, or more often, you'll have to ship the raft by "Hazmat" ground shipping, unless there's a local authorized repacker. And even then, some of them are twice the price of others.


I think you will also find that most "inshore" models have a simple floor, while a true offshore raft will have a double bottom with insulation between the layers, designed to prevent hypothermia if you (the raft) are in the water for longer periods.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 15:08   #14
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

With modern SAR assets world wide you would think that it wouldn't take that long to mount a rescue, but if you are further than 3-400 miles off shore rescue assets may not be able to reach you immediatly and the only option becomes commercial vessels deviating to find you. Even in busy waters this can take a few days, in really out of the way places it could take much longer.

With this in mind I still feel having multiple EPIRB's is the best chance of rescue. While planning to set them off sequentially to allow additional time for a rescue asset to come find you. But adding a sat phone and handheld GPS to report your location and to speak with rescuers is also a good idea. Adding a text messaging SPOT tracker to the mix would also help but it's communication is one way. With an ideal mix being a sat phone to set up a reporting interval, and a way for rescuers to speak with you on at pre-planned times (to save battery power) while using the spot to pass on information immediatly.


As with most questions about rarely used equipment I really think that sailors are a very poor source of information. Who amongst us has ever used a liferaft in anger? Even a day or two training on them won't give you a real sense of the relative quality of the options out there. The only good source in my eyes is commercial reviewers and industry experts, so things like SOLAS certification means far more to me for life rafts than say for flashlights.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2016, 15:21   #15
Registered User
 
Lizzy Belle's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Netherlands
Boat: Ohlson 29
Posts: 1,522
Re: Which liferaft? Experiences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I still feel having multiple EPIRB's is the best chance of rescue. While planning to set them off sequentially to allow additional time
Just how many would you bring for an ocean crossing, Hansel?

I see the value of having 2 on board, but not more.

Could be that's what you mean, but in your post it sounds like a high tech trail of bread crumbs
__________________

__________________
"Il faut κtre toujours ivre." - Charles Baudelaire
Dutch ♀ Liveaboard, sharing an Ohlson 29 with a feline.
Lizzy Belle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, liferaft

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Is Red, Which Is Black ? night0wl Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 29 15-03-2014 22:30
Which Hulls Can Be Safely Beached, and Which Must Be Hauled ? toby24b Multihull Sailboats 22 16-01-2014 17:41
Which Is Which ? Peter Richardso Multihull Sailboats 32 29-08-2011 11:32
Which Docks Are Which in Ensenada ? deinno Our Community 6 03-08-2011 10:26
Liferaft - Which to Buy ASIMPLELIFE Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 13-05-2011 08:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.