What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[Pisces]

Firearms or not, post your opinion on the poll.

[Popeye]

Look what happened to Sir Peter Blake in Brazil, December 2001.

Would he be alive now if he hadn't brought his gun?

[graham]

I would love to live in a world where a firearm were not ever needed again, but we don't.

For those of us who are or will call our boat our home, a firearm should, (in my humble opinion), be thought of as another tool of survival.

Crime is getting woorse, not better and the crimes are becoming much more violent, not friendlier.

I can remember my first visit to the USVI, sometime back in the early 1970s.

Crime at that time was unheard of, but as drugs arrived, crime began to swell, and even to my vacation center of St. Johns, where old friends, natives of the island would share with me their terrible details of crime, drugs and the loss of thier young.

I'm not saying, keep an M-16 or AK47 in the galley, nor even a 15 shot pistol, but a word to the wise, when you're out there alone, a cheap pump shotgun will keep all of the crazies away, keep you safe!

Those countries that say NO, either don't bring the gun, or, better yet, don't go to those countries.
Most likely, the countries that would arrest you for a bullet found in your draw, are not examples of democracies in the first place, I've never felt confortable in these areas anyway!

[delmarrey]

Not only Sir Peter Blake, but Megellan in the Philippines and Capt. Cook in Hawaii. And the latter two had wepons, probably asking for trouble. Life is 50% common since, 40% Attitude and 10% chance. At lease that's the way it seems to have been in my life.

[redbeard58]

I agree with Graham. I live in the mountains of Colorado where it is very safe and not much crime. I have a Glock at the nite table. I have my wife carry a pistlol in her vehical for her personal protection. I would have a gun on my boat at the lake...but it is State run. It's a federal crime to have one in the State Park. If I where anyplace in the world these days, I would carry one everywhere I could, as long as it was legal. I am far from a gun carrying sicko, I am an ex Marine with a firearm saftey back round. I am aware of the use of Deadly Force. I have taught my wife the things that I have been trained. Does that mean everyone should carry a gun...no... but with proper training...yes! Until the Bad Guy's don't carry weapons, in which in my life time I will never see, the Good Guys can't be everwhere! And with all the violence in the world today, you may one day have to save your own life or the life of loved ones. Or you can walk around and believe it will never happen to you or any ones else you love! I wonder what Sir Peter Blake would do if he could turn back the hands of time?

[Cool Change]

I have a Military background, I am trained in the proper use of Firearms. Would I carry a weapon on my boat? You bet, would I use it? if I felt my life or that of my crew were at risk, you bet.
I also believe a flare gun is an exellent weapon, most if not all of us, have one on board, thus negating the need for anything heavier.
One caveat, Make sure to comply with rules and regulations concerning firearms aboard when in foreign countries, always declare whatever weapons you carry on board, including all ammunition.

[uncle_fred]

Originally Posted by Cool Change

I have a Military background, I am trained in the proper use of Firearms. Would I carry a weapon on my boat? You bet, would I use it? if I felt my life or that of my crew were at risk, you bet.
I also believe a flare gun is an exellent weapon, most if not all of us, have one on board, thus negating the need for anything heavier.
One caveat, Make sure to comply with rules and regulations concerning firearms aboard when in foreign countries, always declare whatever weapons you carry on board, including all ammunition.

me to being an older military man and i would have one on the boat especially when sailing alone

[EagleSailTwo]

I have aboard a rifle, wasn't my choice of gun, but was given to me by my father who used to hunt deer with it.

If I should ever come into a pirate's trap while cruising some remote place, your damn right I'm gonna have means for survival even if I have to kill to survive!

[Lostmt]

I feel a firearm onboard is ok. Just how many are willing to pull the trigger is another story. It takes a special kind of person to take another life even in self defence. We all think we can but can we. Are does the show of a weapon just make us more apt to die. We don't have much and I will let whom ever have what they want except my wife or my life. I can replace everything I have in time. I will help them even pack. I am ex Army 9th ID VNV 67-68 but raise a hand to hurt the ones I love and you will die without question.

Fear is what the low lifes thrive on and if they don't see fear in you they will leave you alone. Even in other countries they respect power in ones being. Never back out of a place you might not feel confortable being in. Try Compton Calif on a late saturday night in the 70's walk into a resturant and back out. Some on this forum will know what I mean. Bad place for a white couple. We were treated with respect and we gave respect in return. Nice meal and left without any problems.

Just how I feel and I will have my 357mag to shoot sharks with that try to eat my boat.

Oh, I have been to 17 foreign counties and every state in the U.S.

[Gator81]

I'm still a newbie around here, so I've been keeping kindof a low profile on this. I did ask the question in my "meet&greet" post, tho, so I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I've figured out the reason why I feel somewhat ambivalent about it. In most places I've lived (6 of the 50 United States, but never abroad) the laws are more or less consistent, in that having a gun in my home and using it against intruders in reasonable circumstances is OK, but having a gun hidden on my person or in my vehicle (without a concealed carry license) is not OK. I've become accustomed to that dichotomy, and I'm OK with it even though some of its premises are debatable.

The problem is, now that the wife and I are seriously discussing living on a cruiser for long periods of time when we retire, I'm having trouble fitting that new set of circumstances into my experience. On the one hand, that boat would be my home, where my wife and I sleep, and I feel I should have the right to defend us against intruders. But it's also a vehicle, likely to carry us joyfully into new jurisdictions where the law takes a dim view of armed visitors, just as the law here on land feels about a pistol under the car seat.

I can't control what or who comes into my neighborhood, or chooses to come in my house through a locked door. But I can choose where I go. If a place seems so dangerous to me that I have to carry a weapon, maybe it deserves a little thought about going somewhere else instead. And if my neighborhood were so dangerous that I was scared to go to sleep at night, I'd move.

Seems to me the important thing is to weigh what is to be gained against what is to be lost. More simply, is keeping or carrying a weapon worth the trouble? There are risks on both sides.

For years, I kept a .45ACP in the nightstand by the bed, full magazine and empty chamber, loaded with Sure-Shok rounds. I've had military training with firearms, and earned my Sharpshooter qualifications. I will hit what I shoot at, and it will die quickly. Moreover, I know better than to think that showing a gun is a defense. I had absolute certainty that I would never put a round in the chamber of that weapon unless I knew what/who I was going to kill. There is no room for hesitation there. Fortunately, that's never happened. Along the way, I became a dad. And when my daughter and her visiting friends got to be older, I decided that the benefit to my peace of mind from having that .45 close by was no longer worth the worry. So the gun got locked up alongside my hunting and sporting guns. And there it stays, at least for now. I simply decided that the risk of having it close at hand was now greater than the risk of NOT having it close at hand. Of course, you never know what's going to happen tomorrow. I may get bludgeoned in bed in a home invasion robbery. But if I put that weapon back in the nightstand, I may come home from work to find that one of my daughter's idiot teenage friends has just killed himself, playing Roy Rogers. So, for now, I'll just double-check the locks at bed time, and give the dog a treat whenever she growls at something in the dark.

Oh, and I still don't know what to do about keeping a gun on the cruiser. Depending on a flare gun or spear gun seems kinda silly, but I'm a newbie and maybe that's the most practical thing to do. OK, I'll be quiet and go back to lurking now....

[Stede]

I think all cruisers have mixed feelings about whether firearms should be carried on board.I sail single-handed a lot and go to some pretty remote areas. When sailing to say, the Dry Tortugas,I do carry on board a police type shotgun.I figure it will be good for protection,or if a shark is chewing on my boat....just kidding! I've read many comments from cruisers that have done some blue water cruising.Apparently,carrying weapons over seas involves a lot of red tape,and can be disastrous if all your paperwork isn't in order.If I were going to do that type of cruising,I would have to do a lot more research on the subject before I could make an informed decision. Not long ago there was a program on t.v. concerning piracy in different areas of the world.It's becoming more of a problem than most people realize.

[sail_the_stars]

Should we carry guns on our boats? Where does everyone sail? Certain areas are pirate areas. Let's not forget that our Earth is 70% water. What percentage of the oceans are pirate infested? Reducing areas to percentages is basic math on a 2-D surface. 3-D involves trig. Basic nav anyone? Anybody care to tackle the problem? It'd take me a year with all else I have to do in my land-locked life.

Where do I most feel thatI need a gun? On land. Do I own one myself? No. but, I would be an NRA member if I had a little extra cash to spare. My wife and I are saving for other things........ like a sailboat. But the NRA is right that a gun is only a tool. Unfortunately the world needs a little bit of "fixing" in the manners and sometimes morals department.

But where can I go to escape from the crazy world of land?

Is it outer space? I'd be up for being an interstellar space explorer, but I'm born a thousand years too soon.

All I'm left with is the oceans.

I am very glad that there are people who travel the oceans with guns. Most particularly I am excessively pleased beyond any reasonably number of words with the United States Navy. They carry some day big and fine guns; some damn fine and brave men and women serve on those ships. I feel safe knowing the war against terrorism wil be won and piracy will be decreased too.

I'd be happy though to meet all of you gun owners that gave your most worthy and heartfelt comments. You keep the pirates guessing whether that sailboat is really that "easy" of a target. All of us benefit whether we carry or not. Someone mentioned avoiding pirates is mostly attitude. God made us all different and some of us just exude the proper pirate repelent with guns and some without.

There but for the grace of God we could be pirates too. Doubt my word? Who hasn't sung the words to a pirate looks at forty?

No, I will not carry firearms unless a flare gun with lots of rockets counts. Fire is such a dangerous thing on boats.

PAUL, on the beach in Arizona

"Freedom isn't free"

[Highlander]

Its intriging to see the various reasons for both pro and con on here but some of them are, I think unfortunate. As Peter Blake found out so tragically and my own experience would seem to indicate, there is no point in carrying firearms unless you are prepared to go to war. And I mean that term in very much a litteral sense. Most of the pirates of today (in places like the strait of Malacca, off Yemen and Aden etc. are carrying AK47s and the like. A shotguns range is, at sea with someone who really knows how to use it, about 100 yards on a good day with a calm sea. As an instructor for the pistols we used to use once said (truthfully) that if your target was more the 50 yards away, throw the silly weapon - you'll have a lot better chance of a hit. Granted we now use a far superior weapon but believe me, by the time you try to sight and the guy with the AK, you'll have a heap of holes in you.

What this would appear to indicate is that if you show up with a weapon - and the bad guys are serious - you're going to draw fire by someone who is probably a lot better armed than you are. And as someone else has pointed out - appearing with a weapons dramatically increased the level of force in the situation. A few years ago, one of our ships got a Pan pan from a yacht that was being shadowed. The ship deployed their helo who flew right in over both the yacht and the pirate vessel. The pirates (if that is what they were) didn't leave at all and stayed right there until the frigate showed up over the horizon.

A year or so before that, we had a suspicous radar contact close to within a 1000 yards of us (at night) as we were headed into Saigon. At the time we had the heavy machine guns mounted as well as fire hoses rigged and they disengaged. Warships sail with only their running lights on so we didn't know at the time whether we were simply a traget of opportunity which, when idendified, suggested discretion as the better part of valour or if they were just inoccently on a converging course and for some other reason veered off but very few vessels in that areas could move that the speed these guys were.

A few years ago I would have said that I'd carry a weapon(s). My choice at the time was an SMG (Submachine gun) any one of a few would have worked well but I would probably have picked a sterling as they are only 19 inches long with the butt plate folded and their rate of fire (abut three rounds per sec)would be have been able so keep someone at about two hundred yards unless they were awfully serious about boarding me. Now? I doubt I would carry anything other than a flare/spear gun. First, the thing would be a pain to explain. Those friendly governmental agents would likely frown rather seriously on the SMG and anything less would, in all probability wind up like Peter Blake's unfortunate experience. The other thing is that most people with firearms tend to take some (security) comfort from them which means that when they feel threatened, out come the guns which, as mentioned by others, drives up the show of force. As cruisers we are first and foremost guests in other countries and it seems to me that we shouldn't be waving guns in our hosts faces. Especially until we are darned sure that they are a threat and that is generally only going to be known when they jump aboard your boat. further more, if you shoot a native without awfully good cause, a lot of jails the like of which you may well (rightfully) be spending a long time in, are not up to western standards. I got a chuckle a few years back when I read in an forum much like this of one person who felt he would bring a gun aboard only when he was sailing in areas of a higher threat - like some of the areas in Canada. Living here, with a crime rate so low that in comparison to where this gent was it was almost non-existant, I had to laugh. Not at his solution becuase he obviously was serious, but because at the time I would have been carrying in wht I considered the high threat area of the eastern seaboard of the US. That area he felt was a low threat!

What all this would appear to suggest is that some people live more in fear, or at least real distrust, of others and perhaps these are not the best mind sets for international cruisers. Its interesting that a number of people are quite prepared to take the risk of those dangers meted out by Mother Nature - like typhoons and hurricanes which have killed a lot more people that pirates, but live in mortal fear of those they are going to visit and learn about. Most of the really accomplished cruisers (Pardeys?) say don't even think of carrying. The other reason not to carry would appear to be that if you do, you can expect, at least from any serious pirate, to be seriously outgunned as you escalate the show of force.

I certainly can't claim to have the definitive answer but I think a lot of both the evidence and the logic indicates that not carrying is the best course. That said, it must also be realized that there are areas of higher threat as noted by the IMO. So convoying, Rallying etc should still be a considered course of action. And if you are boarded it wouldn't hurt to have that insert for the flare gun....

Cheers, Doug

[spidey_ak]

Originally Posted by Highlander

(in places like the strait of Malacca, off Yemen and Aden etc. are carrying AK47s and the like. A shotguns range is, at sea with someone who really knows how to use it, about 100 yards on a good day with a calm sea. As an instructor for the pistols we used to use once said (truthfully) that if your target was more the 50 yards away, throw the silly weapon - you'll have a lot better chance of a hit. Granted we now use a far superior weapon but believe me, by the time you try to sight and the guy with the AK, you'll have a heap of holes in you.

Just a quick observation:

A shotgun loaded with slugs & using a high grain bullet would go quite a bit further with much better results.

As for me, I would carry two types of weapons (and plan on doing so): a 300 Winchester Rifle with scope & a marine shotgun. I am military sniper trained and have used a 300 Winchester my whole life, so I feel confident I could hit what I needed to in a pinch. The shotgun would be for short range protection.

Actually, I hope never to have to use them, unless it's to hunt here, where I now live =). But, given the negative experiences (& positive!) around the world of which I've read but a few, you can bet it will be part of our contingency & emergency plans.

By the way, you hear about pirates stealing gear, alcohol, etc... but, the reality of the situation is that. on top of the "average" roberry or hijacking, they rape, pillage, & more (at least, according to my ex who lived in the Phillipenes for awhile).

[sneuman]

but they aren't robbing pleasure vessels in the strait of malacca! look at International Maritime Organization's Web site if you don't believe me.