What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[Troubledour]

Believe it or not, in the states a federal Class A Firearms Permit will cover weapons like machine guns. A friend of mine has one & he collects machine guns of any size, caliber & nationality. As a result, I have a great deal of time behind hardcore hardware like water cooled Brownings, Thompsons, etc. The bazooka may be another thing entirely, I'll have to ask him.

(I also built his gun room & got $1k/foot for the finest cherry cabinetry I've ever even attempted, 10 yrs after the fact I still like to sit in that room & soak in the ambiance … ahhh, the hedonistic & slightly psychotic joys of old money)

As you correctly point out, the difficulty of identifying friend or foe in anything less than a free-fire zone is always there ... I have a very unpleasant image of a boat in distress, possibly with no radios as a result of an electrical fire or whatever … approaching that bazooka.

Whatever people may think about issues of self defense ... stand up & fight, run, trust in the civility of those with none, hope the hell the cops get there in time & don’t screw it up when they do, whatever ... this guy is indeed a Class A Idiot. If the .50 cals & bazooka aren't enough to suggest it, his casual revelation of his arsenal completely confirms it. This isn’t just a case of “Tiny Little Dick” syndrome, this is full on penis envy by one that absolutely should NOT be in possession of that Class A Permit or any of the hardware that it covers.

Troubledour

[Mercator]

I personally am anti-guns but I listened to the owner and found his argument for carring the weapons reasonably valid.

He is ex-armed forces and is fully trained and qualified to use them. His crew have also had to undergo extensive training.

At times he carries high profile passengers and dignataries

The licence ( which I have seen ) I gather was only issued at the highest level of government and would not normally be issued to the average person.

They are trained in identification proceedures. This includes changing course several times to ascertain if the other vessel also changes course to intercept them etc. To be able determine the accuarate course and speed of another vessel you need some fairly sophistcated radar and sonar.

Another little item I didn't mention is a booby trap that they have installed. If a boarding party did manage to get along side they have the facility to charge the stainlees steel railings around the boat with 20,000 volts. Not enough amps to kill but enough to make boarding a little difficult.

I would hope that by posting to this thread that anyone reading it would realise that most of us are not qualified or equipped to carry weapons on board and to do so is more than foolish.

[GordMay]

Troubledour:
So does this US "Class A" Permit allow you to carry an Automatic Weapon on your person - or just to own/possess it?

We have permits (in Canada) which allow ownership of Auto' weapons, but only for use within an "authorized" club. I think you can only transport the Auto' to & from home & the club (& probably 'disabled' in transport).

Regards to all - and best of the season to you & yours,
Gord

[delmarrey]

Here are some sites with legal info on the subject.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.htm

http://members.rogers.com/crumlinsportsmen/firearm.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~americanfir...irearmlaws.htm

Good sailing......................_/)

[Troubledour]

Gord

A rash of cold weather related work on rentals, winter's finally hit here ... I'll have to get back to this in more detail later.

Very quickly though, the answers to your questions can probably be found in the links posted by delmarrey. As a practical matter, Bill & I have never transported automatic weapons in a functional condition & interestingly, if anybody were to try to take them from him it would be sidearms that would settle the issue, not machine guns.

Though I've never participated in his club activities (meaning that we've done a lot of "unaffiliated" shooting) he does belong to a club & travels nationwide on club related activity. In fact, he's out of town now, I don't know where, I just know that his airplane isn't in his hanger & his car is. When he gets back I'll ask about some of the details related to his permit. Basically, it's a dealer's license but I don't know the related fine print.

One last thing, I've been thinking about how to respond to Mercator's post(s) without being one of those posters that we all hate ... the self important boob that focuses negative attention on another poster in an attempt to inflate his own opinion of himself ... however, I do hope people are thinking for themselves on this.

The idea that we have anybody anywhere, prowling about with weapons of that nature & with the intent of using them in a personally defensive capacity ... particularly one that's stupid enough to commit a show & tell session ... welp, this is very disturbing & I couldn't care less about licensing.

The craziest man I've ever met is a neighbor that carries the same CCL that I carry & I dread the day that I'll have to shoot him as he goes symptomatic with a firearm. He's already shot one person, allegedly accidentally & largely due to stupidity, ignorance & incompetence. Again, he carries the same CCL that I carry, he's retired Navy & likes nothing better than to impress people with his hardware. Mercator's guy reminds me of nobody more than he reminds me of Crazy Ted.

Troubledour

[BC Mike]

The US has a gun policy that may be unique to specific areas. It is when that logic is taken to other countries, where they have different ideas that I find a problem. England, NZ, Ozzy land Sweden, all have a different idea about this than the average gun toting US citizen. I think we should all respect the way things are done where we are, and not try and import our own ideas.
I sincerely regret that it was a kiwi that got shot because he had a gun, however he was in an area where guns are popular.
BC Mike C

[delmarrey]

What US gun policy are you talking about?

And I believe it was an aussie that was toting the big guns here.

Also, I believe it was the Spainish that was the first to take their guns into foreign ports to over throw and pillage the innocent.

It's the lawless solcieties that have trouble with the public owning guns. Their governments are affraid, the US is not! There is a price for freedom. If your going to fly someone is going to crash. If your going to sail someone is going to drownd. If your going to climb mountains someone is going to fall.

[BC Mike]

The US policy that I was referring to includes the fuzziness around the issue of the right to bear arms, the general acceptance of arms in public and the law requiring guns in some areas. Many civilised societies have a dislike for the public carrying guns, not just lawless societies. That it was an Aussie that is armed is also unfortunate, the same for any nationality. The issue of the Spanish or any nations actions in the past, is the past. If we look close enough there are few if any places that do not have something that they are not proud of. In this debate I am not singling out any society, we all have criminals. It is just unfortunate that any society would feel the need to have to be armed for their own protection. Would you agree that it would be much better if none of us ever had the need to defend or arm ourselves. How we choose to do that I think, was the original question. BC Mike C

[delmarrey]

Yeah, that would be nice if no one had guns. And it would be nice if I didn't have to lock my door when I leave. But this is an imperfect world.
Out at sea I won't be carrying because even if I were to win a gun battle I'd have to deal with the local authorities and in some cases it would be better to be dead.
Here in the US we have laws to govern the use of weapons and if you abide by thoses laws, no problem. As for the criminals, you just can't shoot one and get away with it. They have to be a deadly threat and bearing a weapon. And if you don't have a weapon your self, well your SOL. When this country claimed it's Independance from Britian, it gave the citizans rights that garenteed to preserve our freedom and one of those was the right to bear arms against our enemies. It was directed at the militia's but the wild west laxed that meaning and it still stands today with exceptions. As for carrying a weapon, ones has to have a permit to conceal and in some places (zones) just to have ammo with the weapon. If you take away the guns then only the criminals will have the guns and that could be the government. And besides a knife can kill just as fast as any gun just not as far away.
The commies and solcialist don't want you to have guns, it makes it difficult to control the populas.
Regards................Del

[BC Mike]

Agreed. These are not easy issues. It is easy to point fingers but we have plenty of crime and murders in what we would like to think is a peaceful civilized society. My need for a gun is in case I have to put down an animal. I will not carry one aboard. Merry Christmas Michael Casling BC Mike C

[BC Mike]

When I logged on a few minutes ago and clicked on view new messages one of the messages listed in the firearms discussion was from me. I was in the basement working on a sail at the time it was supposed to be posted, and the computer was not on. Also there are no new messages on the firearms thread since my last one around Christmas 003. BC Mike C

[Troubledour]

Somebody cast a vote ...

Troubledour

[29cascadefixer]

" Don't like guns " and "Do like guns " are about neck and neck ! The " Not sures " are out in front by 4 votes. Sounds like Cascades' Truth number 255---Ahem- " Given enough possible decision outcomes, no one can make a decision ". Monty Python would probably say- " Hmmmmmmm- Shooters like guns, targets don't like guns, and we have a large crowd just to watch. Sounds like a Shootin' match to me.

[GordMay]

From "Sailnet"
Cruising Dangers, Part One
by Liza Copeland
After 100,000 miles spent sailing the globe, a cruiser formulates
some important advice regarding would-be thieves, handguns, and
pirates.
http://www.sailnet.com/view.cfm?page=12428

[capn_nik]

Just so I don't inadvertantly break any laws in foriegn countries I have decided to only take my flare gun as an emergency weapon. I contemplated my AR-15 but where the hell am I going to stow it? and I really don't want the marine environment making a expensive weapon useless due to corrosion or whatnot...they won't get much from me...I bury my treasure!...hahah 1939 boat and very unique..would be very hard to get rid of if ya stole it...weapons questions are difficult to answer...hhmmmmmmmmm