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View Poll Results: Firearms or Not? What Do You Think . . .
Yes, I think it's a good idea 108 36.36%
Bad Idea 96 32.32%
Not sure, both have merits and faults 93 31.31%
Voters: 297. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13-09-2007, 02:09   #436
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AK 47 price...

All the reports that I have seen suggest that an AK47 or similar sells for $350 to $3,500 on the street (wherever that might be).

And I'd think that the cheap one might not be worth having...
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Old 13-09-2007, 02:54   #437
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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
All the reports that I have seen suggest that an AK47 or similar sells for $350 to $3,500 on the street (wherever that might be).

And I'd think that the cheap one might not be worth having...
"But the latest AKs cost over a thousand dollars, versus under a hundred bucks for a knock-off AK-47 copy. It's all about competition."
Russia Tries to Outlaw the AK-47


I was approached about 10 years ago to bring a boatload of type 56's from Davao Island (Phillipines) to somewhere up there, I suspect Bouganville, and be paid in Gold on the way out. (more than enough to have build the boat I lusted for at the time)

I convinced them that my 30 ft cat could not carry, nor had enough places to hide a load of guns, probably could have stashed 12kg of gold though.

I heard the guy got knicked on drug import charges a few years later

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Old 13-09-2007, 07:55   #438
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44 Cruising Cat, The worst violation of "Arms" I have witnessed was a Drunken Canadian shooting off Parachute flares in a crowded marina on New Years. After he nearly torched a few boats I threw him in the water after which his wife threatend me with a knife.

I would like shootgun on board to shoot at all the floating crap we see on the ocean but would rather put it to my head than fill out all the paperwork to get in "Ferin countries".

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Old 13-09-2007, 08:34   #439
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All the reports that I have seen suggest that an AK47 or similar sells for $350 to $3,500 on the street (wherever that might be).

And I'd think that the cheap one might not be worth having...
You're right. There is a huge grey-market arms production center in Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province (I have seen it) where many of the lower-end knockoffs are produced. They are often of inferior quality and are considered a bit on the dangerous side. They're fine to brandish (if only to impress the untrained eye), but I wouldn't want to have to fire one.
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Old 13-09-2007, 10:00   #440
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It is interesting that the poll show a fairly even split amongst yes, no , and maybe. The question was regarding firearms or not, good idea, or bad idea.
Perhaps a more pertinent poll question would be: would you actually carry a firearm if cruising in waters outside the US. I suspect the poll results would be dramatically different.
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Old 13-09-2007, 10:18   #441
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Catman, ignoring the fact that your "facts" are cited from some UK group whose stated goal on their web site is to ban all civilian gun ownership (rather than from direct sources)...the number of gun deaths is no more reason to ban guns, than the number of drowning deaths is a reason to ban all boating and swimming.

They ignore the proven statistic that when and where guns are banned from legal ownership--gun death rates skyrocket in the US. Every time gun ownership and concealed carry are legalized/liberalized, the death and crime rates go down. There are now 30 years of various local, county, state, and FBI statistics backing that up. Doesn't matter how you feel about guns and gun ownership, the FACT is that when you ban it--more people get killed. So, folks who want to "do good" by banning guns need to realize that regardless of their good intentions--they are only going to kill people by banning guns. (That's speaking here for the US and the US alone.)

Of course banning guns in Oz has lowered the number of gun deaths...keep telling yourself that, I've seen other numbers that show felony crime rates and deaths from other weapons (knives) are up to compensate.

What none of the statistics can show, is the number of times guns have been used to save lives. Informal polls in the US indicate that figure may be 50-fold more than the number of reported "crimes" from guns. Formal statistics for it, simply are not kept.
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Old 13-09-2007, 10:49   #442
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Well done hellosailor. I love to see a gentleman/lady/ladyboy who knows his/her statistics. I particularly love to see a ludicrous statement such as "from some UK group whose stated goal on their web site is to ban all civilian gun ownership".

At all costs, use generalities. Specifics would only confuse the masses. Just for my sake though, could you tell me where the proof of the following resides?

"They ignore the proven statistic that when and where guns are banned from legal ownership--gun death rates skyrocket in the US. Every time gun ownership and concealed carry are legalized/liberalized, the death and crime rates go down. There are now 30 years of various local, county, state, and FBI statistics backing that up. Doesn't matter how you feel about guns and gun ownership, the FACT is that when you ban it--more people get killed."

I appreciate that facts might confuse the issue, but kindly indulge me. For some reason I tend to instinctively wince disbelievingly when I see arguments made without any real evidence. "I display here irrefutible proof of the production and storage of and intent to use WMDs." When someone tells me he breeds cats, aka "Weapons of Mice Destruction", I always demand to see the evidence, rather than just nice charts and statistics out of his backside pocket.

We Europeans agree that if you Americans supply your all schoolchidren with automatic weapons (instead of having them buy them on the black or grey markey) then incidents such as occurred at Columbine will cease forthwith. That's a fact. Stands to reason. A corollary, you must agree, would surely be that every family should have its own nuclear weapon. That would stop all lunacy.

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Catman, ignoring the fact that your "facts" are cited from some UK group whose stated goal on their web site is to ban all civilian gun ownership (rather than from direct sources)...the number of gun deaths is no more reason to ban guns, than the number of drowning deaths is a reason to ban all boating and swimming.

They ignore the proven statistic that when and where guns are banned from legal ownership--gun death rates skyrocket in the US. Every time gun ownership and concealed carry are legalized/liberalized, the death and crime rates go down. There are now 30 years of various local, county, state, and FBI statistics backing that up. Doesn't matter how you feel about guns and gun ownership, the FACT is that when you ban it--more people get killed. So, folks who want to "do good" by banning guns need to realize that regardless of their good intentions--they are only going to kill people by banning guns. (That's speaking here for the US and the US alone.)

Of course banning guns in Oz has lowered the number of gun deaths...keep telling yourself that, I've seen other numbers that show felony crime rates and deaths from other weapons (knives) are up to compensate.

What none of the statistics can show, is the number of times guns have been used to save lives. Informal polls in the US indicate that figure may be 50-fold more than the number of reported "crimes" from guns. Formal statistics for it, simply are not kept.
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Old 13-09-2007, 11:28   #443
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Kesey, since your mind is already made up, I won't waste my time giving you URLs. As I said, the source statistics are available from state, county, and FBI sources directly. Our FBI is a division of our DOJ (Department of Justice) and both have .gov web sites that eventually will lead you to some of their annual published statistics. Then, you can do your own homework finding how gun laws have changed in each state or city in the past 30 years, rather than getting the data from what you would call biased sources here.
Or you can take a shortcut, and look at the US cities with the most restrictive gun control laws (i.e. Washington DC and Chicago) and notice how they rank for gun deaths and crimes--at the top of the list. While the cities and states that allow concealed carry, have positions at the bottom of the list.
You can find the lists for yourself. Just don't go looking for them at the old HCI (Handgun Control Inc.) site, HCI was forced to shut down and re-open under another name after it was proven that they were making up their own numbers once too often. That would be the same HCI that sent our Postal inspectors to shut down the NRA, on the grounds that the NRA had repeatedly published fraudulent statistics in their magazines which are posted by US Mail. Oddly enough, the postal inspectors couldn't find one mistake in the NRA's citings, and it was HCI that closed.
Or perhaps not so odd, since most of the people here who bother to look up source statistics find out the same thing.
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Old 13-09-2007, 11:48   #444
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Here, this should get you started.............

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Some argue further that widespread gun ownership is one of the best deterrents to crime as well as to potential tyranny, whether by gangs or by government. They may also criticize the notion of enhancing federal, as opposed to state, police powers.
Gun Control

Remember the Watts riots? Store owners saved their inventory from looters only because they had guns.
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Old 13-09-2007, 16:15   #445
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Well--I agree with the 12 gauge plus pig slug guy--even buckshot will help when a crock is trying to lift someone from the deck or drag someone into the waters. Lunatic tourist operators have taught them how to jump quite high in to the air to get what they want--thanks guys.

A shotgun is a universal survival food-getter--and when in tropical waters is a good thing to have either aboard or ashore. Parts of northern Australia are heavily croc inhabited--and thanks to the lack of large goanna lizards that used to eat croc eggs (killed by munching imported cane toads)--there are more of them in some streams than ever before--and they DO take people.

Someone wants to come aboard and rob me? The thought that I may be armed is a deterrent. The knowledge that I would not be armed would certainly encourage them to try. Age makes one a target for crims--and a firearm helps redress the lop-sided odds.
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Old 13-09-2007, 16:41   #446
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Gun Control

Remember the Watts riots? Store owners saved their inventory from looters only because they had guns.
So you would support the use of deadly force to protect one's property? ie." It's fine for me to take someone's life but don't dare try taking my stuff."

Frankly I would have been more intersted in getting out of there than trying to defend my inventory.
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Old 13-09-2007, 18:47   #447
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Frankly I would have been more intersted in getting out of there than trying to defend my inventory.
Run Osama..........run

We have one word for that here..... coward.
We have the RIGHT to bare arms against our enemies, and to protect our properties. And inventory maybe someones livelyhood.

What ARE YOU willing to fight for??????????

If someone wants to risk their life for material things, then so be it!

Those who are not willing to STAND UP for something, will FALL for anything.

Bravery in the face of the enemy is what has built this country. And cowardly acts is what will bring it down!!!!
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Old 13-09-2007, 20:13   #448
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LMAO!! Now I know why I got all those PM's apologising on your behalf!! Thank you to those people! I accept that Del's views don't represent all Americans.

Call me a coward? Try doing that to my face one day Easy to be brave over the internet isn't it?

So here's a question - youre getting mugged at knifepoint, and you only have $1.00 in your wallet - do you just hand over the buck, or do you go for your gun? (Defend your property, you hero!) Would you escalate a robbery into a possible murder for $1.00? Or is there some fixed value that you have in mind that you will fight for? Let's say your wife or partner is with you - are you willing to put her/his life in danger for $1.00? Or would it take $10.00?

Would those store keepers have been as "brave" if the looters had guns too? Would they engage in a gunfight to the death for the sake of their inventory?

I value my property - I have had to work for it. But I value my life, and those I love far higher. I wouldn't even risk YOUR life for the sake of $100.00 Del!

I would stand up to defend the safety of PEOPLE. But I wouldn't shoot someone to stop them stealing my car. It's just a car, after all. I guess you would, and you would think yourself brave for doing so.
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Old 13-09-2007, 20:19   #449
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Is it any wonder with that sort of reply that the US is one, if not the, most despised nations on earth.

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Old 13-09-2007, 20:23   #450
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