What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not? - Page 11

CaptainK · 02-02-2006, 23:21

I agree, Kai.

But unfortunately, there's alot of people who can not control their urges to kill someone in cold blood. And the ones who uses their guns for home protection can also be prosecuted.

I remember back about 11 years ago. This incident took place at night. Some burgular, breaks into a home. The owner heard it. He gets his gun. And the homeowner hears the burgular heading towards the bedroom.

The homeowner fires his gun. Hitting the burgular. The burgular walked out of the house and died outside the house. On the fornt lawn. The cops took the man to jail. And was tried and convicted of manslaughter.

(The catch is this)

If the homeowner, after shooting the burgular. Would have continued to shoot another round. To prevent him from leaving the house. He wouldn't of been convicted? But that's how the law works?

This also depends on which state, in the United States. Not all laws are the same in every state. But simaliar? Lawmakers, whoever they are. Some are rabid fans of the NRA. And others are agianst it. In one form or another. It just depends, on the state. And the laws that govern over that state?

BC Mike · 03-02-2006, 09:18

Definitions are always a problem. My opinion has not changed, I do not own a gun and will not get one. After the farm has sold I will have no need for one. I think we should explore all peaceful means possible ( pacifist ) . It is only by joining together for a common good that our societies work. Read " The making of economic society " But you will not be classified as a pacifist if you answer this question yes. If an enemy attacked your property and started killing your family, would you defend yourself and your family? The weapons on my boat remian the same, whatever is available and that includes the spare tiller handle, knifes and winch handles. But my best weapon is my ability to smell trouble a mile off, and react accordingly. I would not have reacted the same way as Peter Blake, although during regattas and Americas Cup events I may wear red socks.
Michael

Jentine · 03-02-2006, 15:16

problem was that he was not prepared to use the weapon in his hands. The other guy was. Had Blake shot first, the outcome would have been different. He did not. I also do not believe that he sought trouble. Trouble has a way of finding those least prepared for it. Pacifism goes just so far.
You can be a pacafist in BC forever because you are not under attack. Were someone endangering your life and you didn't lift a finger to defend yourself and family, you could lay a claim for pacifism, but that is not the case. You are in the wrong place and time.

CaptainK · 03-02-2006, 15:22

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't?

Both Micheal & Jentine.

You are both correct. Either be on constant lookout for trouble. And be prepared for it?

Attackers are usually on alert. And ready to shoot with their guns. Or hack & stab with their knives & machetes. And the captain or crew could just play along. And do nothing. Or defend themselves. Using whatever they could get their hands on? Just like what Micheal said!!

03-02-2006, 18:18

My grandmother ws a true pacifist. She firmly believed that there was no reason for violence. Even in the case of protecting your family. I do not subscribe to her ideals, but I am one to deal with an attacker by taking more than they can dish out. I have been hit many times, but never knocked down, and believe me when I say that after some POed idiot beats on you for 5 minutes, and your only response is to say are you done yet, or to laugh at them, they will stop. Were my family being harmed, I would stop at nothing to prevent it, but I would be far more likely to divert the attack onto myself before I would initiate an attack on them. I also have the ability to smell trouble a mile away, but sometimes it chases me down. I have found over the years that there are far more gratifying means of retribution than putting a bullet into them. I was once in a situation where someone took something from me through force. I walked away with my head up, and 2 years later, the same thing was done to him with interest. I still have the respect of the people who took from him. Call it Karma if you want, but regardless, bad people have bad habits, and eventually those people will do bad things to people with far lower moral standards than yourself.
And FWIW, I have found that good people have far better memories than bad people. When I see some idiot begging for sympathy after the world has dome him wrong, and I recognise him as someone who has done me wrong years before, it brings a smile to my face. Even if he can't remember me, I still feel vindicated.

BC Mike · 03-02-2006, 18:24

Jentime I am not sure what you are saying.
I do not know what Peter Blake was prepared to do, and I do not think you know either. What we do know is he is dead and he had a gun on board. He may have been wearing his lucky red socks. I have said many times that a pacifist approach should be your opening gambit, not a confrontational approach. I failed the pacifist test because I answered yes to the question I posed. I am prepared to defend my family with whatever force I can muster. That has been my position since before the question was first asked of me by the US military in 1969. I would suggest that I am in the right place and time. To dream or think otherwise would not be logical. A civilized society should be able to have its citizens practice pacifist ideals. Sometimes the actions of others makes this difficult, but we should still strive for it. Or are you suggesting I am wrong and we should actively seek confrontation.
My previous countries of residence, and my domocile of origin have been actively envolved in the art of war for as long as they have existed. We are at the dawn of an era where many nations are trying very hard to put that behind them. It is not easy. It starts with you and me and then the others.
Michael

mudnut · 11-02-2006, 20:09

One day Im going on about number crunching,next day Im crunching.go figure!Well as far as I can make out,Pisces started a post that got,7,115 looksies and 148 returns.Rhonda on the other hand got 19,739 looksies but only 286 returns.Now Im not to good at figuring out the numbers so I am asking for help here!!Who in your'e opinion is the best one of these two fine people to have aboard in case of an emergency?And if ya can give me a reason as to why that would help also.This will help the outcome of the new movie"Bumfazzle and the Boom Boom"If we are able to find the perfect Pizza/Hamburger and /or we dont get killed in the interim.Hey Wheels,I dont think Peter likes you,but you are deffinatly good with numbers.Heee.(I carnt get icons to come up,insert ya own)

GordMay · 23-02-2006, 12:35

Should have posted “Firearms Regulations by Country” here, instead of under
‘Red Tape & Paperwork’ (tho' that's what it is) at:
Firearms Regulations by Country

CaptainK · 23-02-2006, 15:53

Thanks Gord for posting that link here.

I remember that link was on under another general thread!!

It's better off on this thread instead!!

BC Mike · 22-03-2006, 18:56

The Basque sp? separatists in Spain have stated they will disarm imeadiately and permanently.
I consider this a good step in the right direction.
Michael

CaptainK · 22-03-2006, 19:25

Yeah Micheal.

It'd be nice if the ETA will stick to their disarmament plan?

They said that before in the past!!

Quarter Moon · 04-04-2006, 20:24

I crewed on an extended boat delivery and was horrified to learn that the captain had a gun on board. I argued the point several times with him and he couldn't bring me around to his way of thinking.
Then one night about 15 miles off the west coast of Nicauraga we had a threatening encounter that included 3 unlit pongas...The appearance of a calm man on the deck merely holding the weapon sent them off in a hurry. I don't feel I need to go into details, you had to be there. But, that event changed my mind about the whole thing.
I will sail with a gun and pray I never need it! This is the great pacifist speaking.

CaptainK · 04-04-2006, 20:58

And I would've of shot them all. If they came too close!!

Kill'em all. And let God sort'em out!!

I'd deal with the law & coasties later over it!!

Maybe?

Jentine · 05-04-2006, 04:51

It is always better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.

GordMay · 05-04-2006, 05:37

Although it may ”always be better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6", it’s simplistic and disingenuous to suggest that these are the only probable outcomes (from which we choose) in any given situation.

View Poll Results: Firearms or Not? What Do You Think . . .
Yes, I think it's a good idea	108	36.36%
Bad Idea	96	32.32%
Not sure, both have merits and faults	93	31.31%
Voters: 297. You may not vote on this poll

02-02-2006, 23:21	#1
CaptainK Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA Posts: 2,387	I agree, Kai. But unfortunately, there's alot of people who can not control their urges to kill someone in cold blood. And the ones who uses their guns for home protection can also be prosecuted. I remember back about 11 years ago. This incident took place at night. Some burgular, breaks into a home. The owner heard it. He gets his gun. And the homeowner hears the burgular heading towards the bedroom. The homeowner fires his gun. Hitting the burgular. The burgular walked out of the house and died outside the house. On the fornt lawn. The cops took the man to jail. And was tried and convicted of manslaughter. (The catch is this) If the homeowner, after shooting the burgular. Would have continued to shoot another round. To prevent him from leaving the house. He wouldn't of been convicted? But that's how the law works? This also depends on which state, in the United States. Not all laws are the same in every state. But simaliar? Lawmakers, whoever they are. Some are rabid fans of the NRA. And others are agianst it. In one form or another. It just depends, on the state. And the laws that govern over that state? __________________ CaptainK BMYC "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

03-02-2006, 09:18	#2
BC Mike Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kelowna BC Boat: Tanzer 8.5m Tanzer 22 Posts: 1,029	Pacifist Definitions are always a problem. My opinion has not changed, I do not own a gun and will not get one. After the farm has sold I will have no need for one. I think we should explore all peaceful means possible ( pacifist ) . It is only by joining together for a common good that our societies work. Read " The making of economic society " But you will not be classified as a pacifist if you answer this question yes. If an enemy attacked your property and started killing your family, would you defend yourself and your family? The weapons on my boat remian the same, whatever is available and that includes the spare tiller handle, knifes and winch handles. But my best weapon is my ability to smell trouble a mile off, and react accordingly. I would not have reacted the same way as Peter Blake, although during regattas and Americas Cup events I may wear red socks. Michael

03-02-2006, 15:16	#3
Jentine Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Massachusetts Boat: Beneteau 393, "Blackthorn" Posts: 564	Blake's problem was that he was not prepared to use the weapon in his hands. The other guy was. Had Blake shot first, the outcome would have been different. He did not. I also do not believe that he sought trouble. Trouble has a way of finding those least prepared for it. Pacifism goes just so far. You can be a pacafist in BC forever because you are not under attack. Were someone endangering your life and you didn't lift a finger to defend yourself and family, you could lay a claim for pacifism, but that is not the case. You are in the wrong place and time. __________________ Jim We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." --Aristotle

03-02-2006, 15:22	#4
CaptainK Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA Posts: 2,387	Damned if you do. Damned if you don't? Both Micheal & Jentine. You are both correct. Either be on constant lookout for trouble. And be prepared for it? Attackers are usually on alert. And ready to shoot with their guns. Or hack & stab with their knives & machetes. And the captain or crew could just play along. And do nothing. Or defend themselves. Using whatever they could get their hands on? Just like what Micheal said!! __________________ CaptainK BMYC "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

03-02-2006, 18:18	#5
Kai Nui Guest Posts: n/a	My grandmother ws a true pacifist. She firmly believed that there was no reason for violence. Even in the case of protecting your family. I do not subscribe to her ideals, but I am one to deal with an attacker by taking more than they can dish out. I have been hit many times, but never knocked down, and believe me when I say that after some POed idiot beats on you for 5 minutes, and your only response is to say are you done yet, or to laugh at them, they will stop. Were my family being harmed, I would stop at nothing to prevent it, but I would be far more likely to divert the attack onto myself before I would initiate an attack on them. I also have the ability to smell trouble a mile away, but sometimes it chases me down. I have found over the years that there are far more gratifying means of retribution than putting a bullet into them. I was once in a situation where someone took something from me through force. I walked away with my head up, and 2 years later, the same thing was done to him with interest. I still have the respect of the people who took from him. Call it Karma if you want, but regardless, bad people have bad habits, and eventually those people will do bad things to people with far lower moral standards than yourself. And FWIW, I have found that good people have far better memories than bad people. When I see some idiot begging for sympathy after the world has dome him wrong, and I recognise him as someone who has done me wrong years before, it brings a smile to my face. Even if he can't remember me, I still feel vindicated. Last edited by Kai Nui; 03-02-2006 at 18:21.

03-02-2006, 18:24	#6
BC Mike Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kelowna BC Boat: Tanzer 8.5m Tanzer 22 Posts: 1,029	More pacifist Jentime I am not sure what you are saying. I do not know what Peter Blake was prepared to do, and I do not think you know either. What we do know is he is dead and he had a gun on board. He may have been wearing his lucky red socks. I have said many times that a pacifist approach should be your opening gambit, not a confrontational approach. I failed the pacifist test because I answered yes to the question I posed. I am prepared to defend my family with whatever force I can muster. That has been my position since before the question was first asked of me by the US military in 1969. I would suggest that I am in the right place and time. To dream or think otherwise would not be logical. A civilized society should be able to have its citizens practice pacifist ideals. Sometimes the actions of others makes this difficult, but we should still strive for it. Or are you suggesting I am wrong and we should actively seek confrontation. My previous countries of residence, and my domocile of origin have been actively envolved in the art of war for as long as they have existed. We are at the dawn of an era where many nations are trying very hard to put that behind them. It is not easy. It starts with you and me and then the others. Michael

11-02-2006, 20:09	#7
mudnut Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 664	What the poll really says One day Im going on about number crunching,next day Im crunching.go figure!Well as far as I can make out,Pisces started a post that got,7,115 looksies and 148 returns.Rhonda on the other hand got 19,739 looksies but only 286 returns.Now Im not to good at figuring out the numbers so I am asking for help here!!Who in your'e opinion is the best one of these two fine people to have aboard in case of an emergency?And if ya can give me a reason as to why that would help also.This will help the outcome of the new movie"Bumfazzle and the Boom Boom"If we are able to find the perfect Pizza/Hamburger and /or we dont get killed in the interim.Hey Wheels,I dont think Peter likes you,but you are deffinatly good with numbers.Heee.(I carnt get icons to come up,insert ya own)

23-02-2006, 12:35	#8
GordMay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 12,582	Should have posted “Firearms Regulations by Country” here, instead of under ‘Red Tape & Paperwork’ (tho' that's what it is) at: Firearms Regulations by Country __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

23-02-2006, 15:53	#9
CaptainK Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA Posts: 2,387	Thanks Gord for posting that link here. I remember that link was on under another general thread!! It's better off on this thread instead!! __________________ CaptainK BMYC "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

22-03-2006, 18:56	#10
BC Mike Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kelowna BC Boat: Tanzer 8.5m Tanzer 22 Posts: 1,029	Disarming The Basque sp? separatists in Spain have stated they will disarm imeadiately and permanently. I consider this a good step in the right direction. Michael

22-03-2006, 19:25	#11
CaptainK Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA Posts: 2,387	Yeah Micheal. It'd be nice if the ETA will stick to their disarmament plan? They said that before in the past!! __________________ CaptainK BMYC "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

04-04-2006, 20:24	#12
Quarter Moon Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Panama City Beach, Florida Boat: Jim Brown, Searunner 37, Moon Posts: 17	guns or not.... I crewed on an extended boat delivery and was horrified to learn that the captain had a gun on board. I argued the point several times with him and he couldn't bring me around to his way of thinking. Then one night about 15 miles off the west coast of Nicauraga we had a threatening encounter that included 3 unlit pongas...The appearance of a calm man on the deck merely holding the weapon sent them off in a hurry. I don't feel I need to go into details, you had to be there. But, that event changed my mind about the whole thing. I will sail with a gun and pray I never need it! This is the great pacifist speaking.

04-04-2006, 20:58	#13
CaptainK Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA Posts: 2,387	And I would've of shot them all. If they came too close!! Kill'em all. And let God sort'em out!! I'd deal with the law & coasties later over it!! Maybe? __________________ CaptainK BMYC "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

05-04-2006, 04:51	#14
Jentine Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Massachusetts Boat: Beneteau 393, "Blackthorn" Posts: 564	A reminder It is always better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6. __________________ Jim We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." --Aristotle

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05-04-2006, 05:37	#15
GordMay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 12,582	Although it may ”always be better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6", it’s simplistic and disingenuous to suggest that these are the only probable outcomes (from which we choose) in any given situation. __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"