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Old 21-02-2016, 15:04   #121
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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You must not sail in my grounds then. A gale can come up in a matter of hours and last for several days any time of year. The north pacific can be unforgiving at the drop of a hat.
Even the PNW has a time to sail
I don't have the pilot charts so I pulled Jimmy Cornel off the shelf:

Alaska to British Columbia
Best Time June- August
Tropical Storms: None
"Gales are rare in summer"
"The sailing season in Alaska is so brief..."

So with your local knowledge their will be a time better than any other to do the passage. The window may be short. But its the window the prudent sailor will use
And if there is a game it will be shorter and less intense than a winter gale.
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Old 21-02-2016, 15:06   #122
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

Don't know Mark, got a few days of reinforced trades that would have been Gale force between Vanuatu, and noumea. Our passage was only a day or so, but it was pretty nasty even on 300 tonne brigantine, they blew for about 4 days all up, and a decent sea built up. Admittedly the hops there are very short, but those reinforced trades sometimes can pump up to the bottom end of a Gale, and blow for a long time even in the Right season. Any decent crew should be able to cope with this ok.


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Old 21-02-2016, 15:14   #123
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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About Marine Weather Warnings

Sorry rc down here it's still 34-47 knots sustained for 10 minutes and measured at 10 metres height. They say that gusts can be 40% more, so technically in a strong Gale you could well see gusts of 65 knots.

ok I was out by 3 knotts

There still pretty damn common.
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Old 21-02-2016, 15:22   #124
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

I remember reading the Bumfuzzle's circumnavigation blog years ago and, if I remember correctly, the worst sailing conditions they experienced on the whole trip was beating into 25 knot winds off the coast of Argentina and on approach to my home port in strong 35 knot trade winds.

Both very much "coastal" locations.
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Old 21-02-2016, 15:24   #125
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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No, no. No!

No cruising in an f'ing gale.

And whats the bs about correcting myself?

Mark
I'm not sure what a 'f'ing gale' is, that must be a Northern thing

But in post 113 you said a gale is 35 knotts, and then in 114 you correctly posted a correction.. I thought.
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Old 21-02-2016, 16:15   #126
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

Anyway... a Blue Water sailboat is a tough boat... a coastal sailboat is a wuss's boat which should stay in a small lake so you can't spill your cocktails....lol

(just to stir the pot a bit....)
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Old 21-02-2016, 16:16   #127
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Anyway... a Blue Water sailboat is a tough boat... a coastal sailboat is a wuss's boat which should stay in a small lake so you can't spill your cocktails....lol

(just to stir the pot a bit....)
yeah that ought a do it
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Old 21-02-2016, 16:22   #128
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Ive taken this topic from another thread which i didnt want to hijack.

It seems to me people have differences in understanding in what is Coastal Cruising, what is Ocean Cruising, and the what the safety needs of the vessel, contents, build is for each.

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Distance from land is the simple answer.

It's less about boat specs or features and more about cause and effect. Time between stops is the 'cause' that drives the 'effects'.

Effects in this case include things like fresh water consumption. Do you have lots of fresh water storage? If not a water maker will allow you make any vessel suitable for an ocean crossing. Then you have to power it. Generator, solar, run engine, manually operated.

Other effects (things) to consider include your means of propulsion. What sails do you need? How often will you run the engine? How much fuel can you carry?

The way i decide whether a particular vessel is ocean capable or not is by:

1) is their multiple redundancy for all mission critical systems?
2) is the vessel equipped with the tools, parts, materiel and test equipment needed to repair mission critical systems?
3) is the crew competent to cross oceans and keep the vessel in a good operating condition?
4) is the vessel capable of carrying sufficient stores to complete the trip whatever the sea conditions?

People have crossed oceans in row boats.

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Old 21-02-2016, 17:04   #129
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Anyway... a Blue Water sailboat is a tough boat... a coastal sailboat is a wuss's boat which should stay in a small lake so you can't spill your cocktails....lol

(just to stir the pot a bit....)
you sooooo nailed it, blue water boats come with sippy cups
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Old 21-02-2016, 17:13   #130
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

It's hard to debate MarkJ if you stick to the lower latitudes but don't take that thinking to the high latitudes because you will likely get a surprise. In the Pacific you have a permanent high pressure system that moves north in the summer and south in the winter. In El Nino years it often moves further north than normal. This blocks the lows from marching into the lower part of BC and gives the area warm dry spring/summer/falls. It also means that you have to sail even further north to get around the top of it when coming from Hawaii. When you are sailing on top of the high you need to get far enough north of it to get some steady winds but every week or so along comes a low and depending how deep it is will depend on what kind of ride you will get but it's almost a sure thing. It's a cake walk sailing to Hawaii from the west coast but not so much coming home. It's also very wet and cold and you'll spend most of your time in heavy weather gear">foul weather gear and warm gloves. Sailing here is not to be confused with trade wind sailing. You can not pick and choose your weather other than the day you leave so what ever comes along you just deal with it. Now as Mark suggested you must only sail this area in the summer months as the winter storms can be brutal. There are weather bouys off the north coast of Vancouver Island that have registered wave heights in the 100 foot region. Coastal day sailing in the area is usually a piece of cake, not so much offshore.
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Old 21-02-2016, 18:42   #131
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Don't know Mark, got a few days of reinforced trades that would have been Gale force between Vanuatu, and noumea. Our passage was only a day or so, but it was pretty nasty even on 300 tonne brigantine, they blew for about 4 days all up, and a decent sea built up. Admittedly the hops there are very short, but those reinforced trades sometimes can pump up to the bottom end of a Gale, and blow for a long time even in the Right season. Any decent crew should be able to cope with this ok.


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I have to ask. So Why go when these winds are predicted. Would not the prudent cruiser stay put for a day or so? I know I did, on a number of occasions.

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Old 21-02-2016, 19:04   #132
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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so.... what makes blue water cruiser?

depends on the sailor.
yeah, I agree with that...
This is fun thread to read though...
For those who say it's crazy to go out in anything less than 30 I'd say only at least we don't have any illusions about how a boat can be tossed around like a tea-cup! Most of us with smaller boats may be a little more vigilant and obsessed with preparations... I used to have a false sense of security about heavy boats until I was in one that reaching, rose a crest only to have it break under us and the boat (Downeast 38) fell off the top of a steep wave like a tea-cup. (This was coastal BTW, Santa Barbara Channel) I had no idea 10 tons could move like that! Now I do. It was kind of fun though. Maybe we were idiots to be out in that weather though?
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Old 21-02-2016, 19:05   #133
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

A 300 ton brig won't be sitting around just because it's windy, hell that when they can really sail.
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Old 21-02-2016, 19:13   #134
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutgloss.shtml
If your friends had 34+ knots for 2 + days sailing in the correct season they were very, very unlucky.
Maybe a cultural difference. I was talking about moderate gale to start at 28k and in fact on wikipedia regarding the beaufort scale they give 3 names regarding F7 conditions (28 to 33k): High wind; Moderate gale; Near gale.

Also the Italian meteorological services give Gale (Burrasca) warnings since F7 even if in fact they call F7 Vento Forte.
Help Avviso di burrasca | MeteoAM.it - Servizio Meteorologico Aeronautica Militare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

It may make some sense to give warnings with F7 on the med since to my experience the sea conditions are worse on the med with F7 than on the Atlantic, particularly if one wants to sail against the wind.

But I checked out and it seems that the more common denomination is to call F7 near gale and F8 gale, even if the ones that call F7 moderate gale call F8 fresh gale.

Bottom point, I was talking about Gale conditions as anything over 28K (as I stated on a previous post). There is a considerable difference between 28 and 34K, if we refer to sustained wind and for extended periods, so in the end you are not so lucky as I was thinking about, regarding the conditions you have meet.
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Old 21-02-2016, 19:15   #135
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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I have to ask. So Why go when these winds are predicted. Would not the prudent cruiser stay put for a day or so? I know I did, on a number of occasions.

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The usual culprit, schedual. The longer we waited the worse it was going to get... Yes a cruiser would wait a week for the crap to go though, then head off. My point was more that even in the 20/20 belt in the right season stronger winds can occur, and if you were mid voyage, it's going to be hard to avoid a large chunk of nasty weather like this, though it's rare to get them that strong for that long, it can happen.

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