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Old 24-02-2016, 11:48   #196
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pirate Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
That has nothing to do with seaworthiness but it will tell you that the boat will be really slow with light winds and will need at least 8 k wind to sail properly.

In fact having to carry a lot of sail in heavy weather, to have the power to sail the boat, is not good at all in what regards safety: huge forces involved regarding stressing the material and a much more difficult job for the one that is taking care of the sails.

Even taking the first reef with F6 is way too much and again will not tell anything about the boat stability and stiffness, only that probably the boat will have a low SA/D by modern standards.
To be honest.. you can be as SAD as you like..
I only want to reach the other side.. from the sounds of it I will always be 2 reefs ahead and 2 weeks behind you on crossings..
I can live with that..

PS: that's why I charge by the mile unless its a rush job.. which is rare.
A day rate might be considered taking the piss..
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Old 24-02-2016, 11:58   #197
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
That has nothing to do with seaworthiness but it will tell you that the boat will be really slow with light winds and will need at least 8 k wind to sail properly.

In fact having to carry a lot of sail in heavy weather, to have the power to sail the boat, is not good at all in what regards safety: huge forces involved regarding stressing the material and a much more difficult job for the one that is taking care of the sails.

Even taking the first reef with F6 is way too much and again will not tell anything about the boat stability and stiffness, only that probably the boat will have a low SA/D by modern standards.
I never said I needed to carry that much sail to get her to move it was more like a post refit shakedown I wanted to push it a bit after about 30 min I turned into the wind and shortened sail BTW my boat moves quite well in light air. Even without a spinnaker up .
Fwiw my sa/d is 16.8
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Old 24-02-2016, 12:18   #198
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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To be honest.. you can be as SAD as you like..... I will always be 2 reefs ahead ...I can live with that..
...
Nah, in what regards reefs you will be certainly way behind me since I reef a lot but you would probably be way ahead of newhaul since he only reefs with F6 or even F7.
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Old 24-02-2016, 14:29   #199
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

Keel depth seems the most telling factor. A boat with >8' keel was built for deeper water.
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Old 24-02-2016, 14:48   #200
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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Keel depth seems the most telling factor. A boat with >8' keel was built for deeper water.
You think so? Not me, what I do know is that deep keel boats go upwind much better.
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Old 24-02-2016, 15:37   #201
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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You think so? Not me, what I do know is that deep keel boats go upwind much better.

It was my twisted sense of humor. If coastal boats have shallow keels, the deeper the keel the better blue water boat it must be.
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Old 24-02-2016, 16:31   #202
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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It was my twisted sense of humor. If coastal boats have shallow keels, the deeper the keel the better blue water boat it must be.
OK you do have a twisted sense of humor but that's cool, better than none!
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Old 27-02-2016, 11:38   #203
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

This email just arrived from a coastal cruiser Catalina 42.







" Well...xxx and xxx are flying home as I type this. We had a good time but the last few days have been eventful to say the least.
We had been to Big Majors, Staniel , Waderick and Normans. Decided to make the run from Normans to Nassau on Friday. About 10 miles northwest of Highbourne Cay in 18 to 25 knt. winds...enjoying a sail on a close reach...boom...we lost our rudder! Dropped the Mantas and started what would be 24 hours of a rough ride. Our calls to BASRA were in vain. We finally had contact with xxxxx at Highboure who relayed our request for assistance ....a tow. She was without her phone and Internet most of the day but through texting and one phone call contacted BASRA. xx also used the Delorme to get a message to his son who in turn contacted BASRA...plus our Seahawlk navy friend also contacted them...help was being arranged but there would be no one coming out until Sat. We held tight bouncing bow to stern all night. The next morning again through xxxxxx and xx's son it was confirmed there would be a fishing boat that was willing to Recue but it would cost $3000.00....
The Recue boat arrived about noon with a crew of a man and wife. The boat was a 1976 Post that looked like it had arrived with Haitian refugees... The only way to get us lines was for the Capt. To dive and swim the lines to us. In doing so he fowled his prop once and ours once...once again diving to free the prop. This was transpiring like a Monty Phython movie! His tow lines where a jumble of various sizes knotted together. Wind and waves battering us constantly. Next was to get our Mantus up...took over an hour ...chain kept slipping and xx had to bring it up by hand a little at a time cleating it off (in the process the cleat pulled out) and waiting for the boat to bounce it off the bottom...this Mantus would reset itself each time...finally anchor up but the roller and anchor snubber were damaged so xx and xxxx had to secure the anchor to the side of the boat (which resulted wearing a hole in the jelcoat) and we headed to Nassau riding the waves from side to side for 22 miles.
As we entered to harbour the tow boat was trying to bring us along side to go the the Marina where we had a T dock waiting. Just as we were secure alongside they got their rope caught in the prop again. There we were not able to steer tied to a boat that could not propel. Again the captain was diving under his boat to free his prop (which he could not do) as we bounced and worked our way close to shallows....he was hollering for xx to put our boat(that we could not steer) in reverse and he did the steering from his perch. In reversing his engine he freed his prop.
THEN...we headed to the dock with waves and 18knot winds behind us. About 100 feet out he called to cut us loose....we managed to kind of reach the dock and someone caught a line....then the big Post hit our bow damaging our pulpit and breaking our lights. We were here. Bruised, battered, nicked and scraped...sore muscles ...but finally secure. Catailina 42 looks a bit scraped and dinged in places.
We are going to be here for repairs. Our insurance will cover the towing , replacement of the rudder and repairs to the damage in transit plus our cost of staying at the Marina...just have to do the arranging ...fortunately we are right next to Brown's Marine repair where they will haul us.
We decided to take N&S for a tour of Nassau and the straw market yesterday as other things were closed. Someone stole my wallet!!!!!!!
We will let you know how things turn out...right now we need a good night sleep...hard to do here as we are constantly reminded of boardings and theft.
Oh me, oh my!!
Cheers x & x "
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Old 27-02-2016, 12:47   #204
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmalcol1 View Post
This email just arrived from a coastal cruiser Catalina 42.







" Well...xxx and xxx are flying home as I type this. We had a good time but the last few days have been eventful to say the least.
We had been to Big Majors, Staniel , Waderick and Normans. Decided to make the run from Normans to Nassau on Friday. About 10 miles northwest of Highbourne Cay in 18 to 25 knt. winds...enjoying a sail on a close reach...boom...we lost our rudder! Dropped the Mantas and started what would be 24 hours of a rough ride. Our calls to BASRA were in vain. We finally had contact with xxxxx at Highboure who relayed our request for assistance ....a tow. She was without her phone and Internet most of the day but through texting and one phone call contacted BASRA. xx also used the Delorme to get a message to his son who in turn contacted BASRA...plus our Seahawlk navy friend also contacted them...help was being arranged but there would be no one coming out until Sat. We held tight bouncing bow to stern all night. The next morning again through xxxxxx and xx's son it was confirmed there would be a fishing boat that was willing to Recue but it would cost $3000.00....
The Recue boat arrived about noon with a crew of a man and wife. The boat was a 1976 Post that looked like it had arrived with Haitian refugees... The only way to get us lines was for the Capt. To dive and swim the lines to us. In doing so he fowled his prop once and ours once...once again diving to free the prop. This was transpiring like a Monty Phython movie! His tow lines where a jumble of various sizes knotted together. Wind and waves battering us constantly. Next was to get our Mantus up...took over an hour ...chain kept slipping and xx had to bring it up by hand a little at a time cleating it off (in the process the cleat pulled out) and waiting for the boat to bounce it off the bottom...this Mantus would reset itself each time...finally anchor up but the roller and anchor snubber were damaged so xx and xxxx had to secure the anchor to the side of the boat (which resulted wearing a hole in the jelcoat) and we headed to Nassau riding the waves from side to side for 22 miles.
As we entered to harbour the tow boat was trying to bring us along side to go the the Marina where we had a T dock waiting. Just as we were secure alongside they got their rope caught in the prop again. There we were not able to steer tied to a boat that could not propel. Again the captain was diving under his boat to free his prop (which he could not do) as we bounced and worked our way close to shallows....he was hollering for xx to put our boat(that we could not steer) in reverse and he did the steering from his perch. In reversing his engine he freed his prop.
THEN...we headed to the dock with waves and 18knot winds behind us. About 100 feet out he called to cut us loose....we managed to kind of reach the dock and someone caught a line....then the big Post hit our bow damaging our pulpit and breaking our lights. We were here. Bruised, battered, nicked and scraped...sore muscles ...but finally secure. Catailina 42 looks a bit scraped and dinged in places.
We are going to be here for repairs. Our insurance will cover the towing , replacement of the rudder and repairs to the damage in transit plus our cost of staying at the Marina...just have to do the arranging ...fortunately we are right next to Brown's Marine repair where they will haul us.
We decided to take N&S for a tour of Nassau and the straw market yesterday as other things were closed. Someone stole my wallet!!!!!!!
We will let you know how things turn out...right now we need a good night sleep...hard to do here as we are constantly reminded of boardings and theft.
Oh me, oh my!!
Cheers x & x "
That is a long post to say that blue-water boats lose sometimes the rudder? That you think that Catalina 42 is a blue water boat? that Catalina 42 is not a blue water boat?

Don't really understand what you want to say. All boats can lose the rudder if not in good maintenance condition. Difficult to find a boat that can fit more on the category of buewater boat (as the more conservative see them) as a steel Motiva and some years ago one lost the rudder on the ARC.
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Old 27-02-2016, 14:52   #205
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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That is a long post to say that blue-water boats lose sometimes the rudder? That you think that Catalina 42 is a blue water boat? that Catalina 42 is not a blue water boat?

Don't really understand what you want to say. All boats can lose the rudder if not in good maintenance condition. Difficult to find a boat that can fit more on the category of buewater boat (as the more conservative see them) as a steel Motiva and some years ago one lost the rudder on the ARC.
Hmmm, perhaps he was just conveying a story

I doubt mine can loose its rudder? Maybe if i got stern ploughed by a tanker

Is my general shape considered a coastal or blue water? It was supposedly commissioned with the intent of 'sailing the workds oceans', which i found in a letter to the French ship yard.
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Old 27-02-2016, 15:07   #206
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

It occurred to me that perhaps one of the reasons this seems to be a recurring and enduring subject is that people who are new to the dream of long distance sailing often visit brokerage sites like Yachtworld to see how much boat they can afford. Within the ad copy of many of the descriptions of boats for sale are lines such as "a comfortable coastal cruiser" or "a proven blue water veteran" etc which invites the repeated question, what's the difference?
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Old 27-02-2016, 15:23   #207
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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It occurred to me that perhaps one of the reasons this seems to be a recurring and enduring subject is that people who are new to the dream of long distance sailing often visit brokerage sites like Yachtworld to see how much boat they can afford. Within the ad copy of many of the descriptions of boats for sale are lines such as "a comfortable coastal cruiser" or "a proven blue water veteran" etc which invites the repeated question, what's the difference?

The most outlandish requirement for a BWC that I have seen on this forum is that it must be able to sail on after a 360 degree roll.

Pretty tough stuff that.
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Old 27-02-2016, 15:52   #208
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

Yes I was just conveying a story that is unfolding at this time.
I thought the lost rudder and cleat that pulled loose and windlass that failed was a good example of coastal cruiser luckily for them thay were close enough to get tow.
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Old 28-02-2016, 04:42   #209
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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I know it's just a term, but are these "blue water" boats?
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Old 28-02-2016, 05:46   #210
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Re: Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

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The most outlandish requirement for a BWC that I have seen on this forum is that it must be able to sail on after a 360 degree roll.

Pretty tough stuff that.
Yes, pretty odd statement. that would exclude all multihulls and regarding being able to sail after a roll does not make sense.

Depending on the violence of the roll, having sails up or not, all boats can lose the rig (and most lose) so even if the boat survives it will not be able to sail unless one has the luck to have enough spared mast to make a jury rig.

The engine survives most of the times intact but that will limit the sailing ability to not enough miles to finish an Oceanic crossing unless one has the chances to be rolled relatively near land.
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